View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty?

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  • Strongly support

    50 33.33%
  • Somewhat/leaning in support

    17 11.33%
  • Unsure

    4 2.67%
  • Somewhat/leaning agains

    16 10.67%
  • Strongly against

    63 42.00%
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Thread: Death Penalty, for or against

  1. #451
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Wrong. The logical argument is to reduce cost and only execute those that are guilty beyond a doubt. This can be done too.
    There is really no such thing. There have been cases where people have actually even confessed to crimes they didn't commit. There have been cases where DNA has been tampered with and/or contaminated. There have been cases of prosecutorial misconduct, where the prosecutors have willfully mishandled or withheld important evidence in the course of trial, etc.

    Not to mention, we can put them away for life in prisons. There is not a NEED to kill them except for perhaps overcrowding.

  2. #452
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    There is really no such thing. There have been cases where people have actually even confessed to crimes they didn't commit. There have been cases where DNA has been tampered with and/or contaminated. There have been cases of prosecutorial misconduct, where the prosecutors have willfully mishandled or withheld important evidence in the course of trial, etc.

    Not to mention, we can put them away for life in prisons. There is not a NEED to kill them except for perhaps overcrowding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Wrong. The logical argument is to reduce cost and only execute those that are guilty beyond a doubt. This can be done too.
    ChrisL is straight up. The justice system is not perfect and when it comes to taking someone's life, that structural imperfection doesn't cut it.

    Incidentally several of these imperfections are also why you don't ever, ever speak to police officers or ever enter a police interrogation of your own free without a lawyer. Such a case just literally happened to my sister last week. A girl backed up into my sister's car in the parking low. This girl apologized to my sister in front of the cop; for that reason alone, this girl is now 100% at fault.

    I'd also go farther than ChrisL. The only logical argument for the death penalty is the pleasure derived from killing someone.
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  3. #453
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    There is really no such thing. There have been cases where people have actually even confessed to crimes they didn't commit. There have been cases where DNA has been tampered with and/or contaminated. There have been cases of prosecutorial misconduct, where the prosecutors have willfully mishandled or withheld important evidence in the course of trial, etc.

    Not to mention, we can put them away for life in prisons. There is not a NEED to kill them except for perhaps overcrowding.
    There is a need to kill them... to uphold the value of innocent life.
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  4. #454
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    There is a need to kill them... to uphold the value of innocent life.
    It does not do that in any way. It lessens the value of human life, if anything, and who in their right mind wants to give the government such power over us anyway, to use and abuse at their discretion? What chance does the average person or, God forbid, the poor minority person have against the government besides some crappy court-appointed lawyer?

  5. #455
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    don't ever, ever speak to police officers or ever enter a police interrogation of your own free without a lawyer.
    Agreed...

    A girl backed up into my sister's car in the parking low. This girl apologized to my sister in front of the cop; for that reason alone, this girl is now 100% at fault.
    Not for that reason alone... she was 100% at fault regardless of police presence.

    The only logical argument for the death penalty is the pleasure derived from killing someone.
    That is a bifurcation (logical) fallacy ... sorry. Nice try though.

    Logical Fallacies» False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy
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  6. #456
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It does not do that in any way. It lessens the value of human life, if anything, and who in their right mind wants to give the government such power over us anyway, to use and abuse at their discretion?
    Innocent life. Innocent. It absolutely shows that society has no other higher value on innocent life.

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    What chance does the average person or, God forbid, the poor minority person have against the government besides some crappy court-appointed lawyer?
    That is irrelevant to the argument at hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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  7. #457
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Innocent life. Innocent. It absolutely shows that society has no other higher value on innocent life.

    teleological ethics (philosophy) -- Encyclopedia Britannica



    That is irrelevant to the argument at hand.
    Irrelevant? I don't think so. Just because you can't come up with a legitimate argument against a totally valid point does not make it irrelevant. Doesn't work that way.

  8. #458
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Irrelevant? I don't think so. Just because you can't come up with a legitimate argument against a totally valid point does not make it irrelevant. Doesn't work that way.
    How is a poor person having a bad lawyer relevant to executing a criminal who committed murder or rape (beyond the question of a doubt) then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    How is a poor person having a bad lawyer relevant to executing a criminal who committed murder or rape (beyond the question of a doubt) then?
    Poor people are the ones most likely to be railroaded by the system. They are easy pickings.

    Perhaps the most important factor in determining whether a defendant will receive the death penalty is the quality of the representation he or she is provided.

    Almost all defendants in capital cases cannot afford their own attorneys. In many cases, the appointed attorneys are overworked, underpaid, or lacking the trial experience required for death penalty cases.

    There have even been instances in which lawyers appointed to a death case were so inexperienced that they were completely unprepared for the sentencing phase of the trial. Other appointed attorneys have slept through parts of the trial, or arrived at the court under the influence of alcohol.

    In 2001, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Ruth Bader Ginsburg commented: "People who are well represented at trial do not get the death penalty . . . I have yet to see a death case among the dozens coming to the Supreme Court on eve-of-execution stay applications in which the defendant was well represented at trial."
    http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=83

  10. #460
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Poor people are the ones most likely to be railroaded by the system. They are easy pickings.



    Death Penalty*:*Inadequate Legal Representation
    So because they are guilty, but had a bad lawyer, they shouldn't have to face the consequences of their actions? You are rewarding the poor murderers because rich murderers get away with it more? That is idiotic. I only wish all murderers and rapists had bad lawyers.

    ...again, Irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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