View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty?

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  • Strongly support

    50 33.33%
  • Somewhat/leaning in support

    17 11.33%
  • Unsure

    4 2.67%
  • Somewhat/leaning agains

    16 10.67%
  • Strongly against

    63 42.00%
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Thread: Death Penalty, for or against

  1. #261
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I disagree. Due process is mercy because it allows one a chance to prove his/her innocence instead of allowing mobs to take over and seek their own kind of justice. And a government set up of laws that doesn't allow the same fate of Socrates.. Socrates' injustice was he was condemned to death soley on his beliefs. The government at that time dealt with dissent through silence by death. Thanks to the founders and their respect for Socrates, we don't do that.
    Interesting take... thank you for that and it has given me something to mull over.
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  2. #262
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    If we're going to have it, can we save the hundreds of thousands it costs and just put a $.30 cent 9MM into the back of their head immediately?
    It's worked well for the Russians and Chinese. China still bills the family of the executed for the cost of the bullet.

  3. #263
    Light△Bender

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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I disagree. Due process is mercy because it allows one a chance to prove his/her innocence instead of allowing mobs to take over and seek their own kind of justice. And a government set up of laws that doesn't allow the same fate of Socrates.. Socrates' injustice was he was condemned to death soley on his beliefs. The government at that time dealt with dissent through silence by death. Thanks to the founders and their respect for Socrates, we don't do that.
    Well, that's partially the reason for due process, but it's also so people get fair treatment under the law, regardless of their position, status or crime committed.

    True, we don't silence dissent with the death penalty or imprisonment, because we're a free society. But the word temper is meant as a counterbalancing force to the harshness of pure, revenge like retribution. A civilized society shouldn't find the need to kill it's criminals as a punishment, because it's unjust in the same way that the criminal justified their own crime.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  4. #264
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Well, that's partially the reason for due process, but it's also so people get fair treatment under the law, regardless of their position, status or crime committed.

    True, we don't silence dissent with the death penalty or imprisonment, because we're a free society. But the word temper is meant as a counterbalancing force to the harshness of pure, revenge like retribution. A civilized society shouldn't find the need to kill it's criminals as a punishment, because it's unjust in the same way that the criminal justified their own crime.
    In a civilized society, there has to be punishments fitting a crime. If not why have laws at all? Punishments depending on their severity often deter criminal behavior. A husband may be contemplating killing his wife but because he knows if he gets caught it means death to him it often stops the murder. Today the death penalty is associated with murder. But 125 years ago you could get hanged for being a horse thief. Horses were the main means of transportation. A man's livelihood could be centered around his horse. A 125 years ago they would be laughing you right out of your britches for your concepts today of what is mercy and just.

  5. #265
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    In a civilized society, there has to be punishments fitting a crime. If not why have laws at all? Punishments depending on their severity often deter criminal behavior. A husband may be contemplating killing his wife but because he knows if he gets caught it means death to him it often stops the murder. Today the death penalty is associated with murder. But 125 years ago you could get hanged for being a horse thief. Horses were the main means of transportation. A man's livelihood could be centered around his horse. A 125 years ago they would be laughing you right out of your britches for your concepts today of what is mercy and just.

    Yes, but society advances and evolves over time, having less need for such severe penalties. That's why so many countries don't have the death sentence anymore. Back when the sentencing was harsher, it was often due to the lack of education, civility and how great an impact stealing had on an impoverished society in comparison to today's cultures.

    Look at how severe the Sharia Laws are and how the Western civilizations find them too harsh and demeaning. Those kind of extremes don't equate to justice but rather the lack of it.

    I'm not trying to alter your opinion, but rather explaining my own, which I didn't formulate suddenly or without much consideration. I'm for justice and the determent of criminal behavior, though I don't believe most potential criminals consider the consequences of their actions, because they're mentally/emotionally imbalanced, desperate, anti-social, ignorant, mean, mistreated, etc.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #266
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Ah, there it is: "the interests of society at large". What the hell does it even mean - outside of totalitarian utopias?

    And there's no equivalency - unless you insist on introducing it, by erasing the difference between killing in self-defense and killing someone defenseless.
    I've no idea how you arrive at Totalitarianism, being that every group has interests they'd desire to see reflected across the body politic.

    The only (false) equivalency here lies in the dishonesty of likening the judicial process to that of a murderer operating beyond the law.

  7. #267
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    I find it interesting that certain posters level accusations of emotionality without mediation of reason, whereas neither side of this fundamentally emotive issue are exempt from such. There's no logical basis to what amounts to a moral issue. Whatever logic there may be in justification, it exists in every position, and any conclusions are ultimately defined by morality, which is immune to logic. However we weigh the value of one life relative to another, these are always value judgements which were never eternal.

  8. #268
    global liberation

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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    I find it interesting that certain posters level accusations of emotionality without mediation of reason, whereas neither side of this fundamentally emotive issue are exempt from such. There's no logical basis to what amounts to a moral issue. Whatever logic there may be in justification, it exists in every position, and any conclusions are ultimately defined by morality, which is immune to logic. However we weigh the value of one life relative to another, these are always value judgements which were never eternal.
    You're excusing yourself from logic and reason based on it being a "moral issue".

    wow

    Your morals are void of logic and reason?

    wow

  9. #269
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    I am against capital punishment for many of the same reasons others have posted. I don't think anyone has the right to kill anyone. You would be stooping to their same level... let them live to think about their crimes for the rest of their life. Justice is just a pretty sounding word for revenge to me.

    The only case I would see capital punish should be committed is when the person or persons is still a threat to the outside world even when imprisoned or whatever.

    This may sound ridiculous, but I have an idea that I would consider implementing. Have complete eternal banishment from our society, similar to life in prison. Accept, wall a 5-10 square mile area(fertile land) of one gender and just toss all the death-row banished inmates there, naked and have them survive on that patch of land themselves with each other for the rest of their lives.

    This is my way of getting around the killing thing.... just toss them their own land to live on with each other and rot. It may be cost effective as opposed to jailing and providing. If they manage to build some sort of civilization there it would be one hell of a social experiment. And make sure the place is impossible to get out of with 24-hour monitoring.

    I think it would be a literal hell on earth.
    Last edited by celticwar17; 05-01-14 at 07:27 AM.

  10. #270
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You're excusing yourself from logic and reason based on it being a "moral issue".

    wow

    Your morals are void of logic and reason?

    wow
    Ah yes, you'd prayed that this most fundamental lynchpin would remain concealed, had you not?

    Sorry, Eco. All the sarcasm you can muster won't suffice to compensate for the core weakness in your approach. Morality does not exist in nature. You'd like to believe that any logic here is more than merely justification of one's personal perspective. This obviously cannot be, unless you, alone in all of history, can explain how morality is objective.

    Were morality logical, there could be no difference of opinion. Every time and culture would have embraced identical ideals.

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