View Poll Results: Do you support the death penalty?

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  • Strongly support

    50 33.33%
  • Somewhat/leaning in support

    17 11.33%
  • Unsure

    4 2.67%
  • Somewhat/leaning agains

    16 10.67%
  • Strongly against

    63 42.00%
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Thread: Death Penalty, for or against

  1. #251
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    What makes you think you've the right to choose for others?
    That is why we have laws and sentences in the first place. The choice was made by the person (or excuse for one) who committed a capital offense. The idea of locking someone up, with no social contact and no hope of ever having freedom again, simply so you can say that is morally superior, since they will then die "naturally", seems odd to me. We don't even do that to dogs in a shelter.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #252
    global liberation

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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is why we have laws and sentences in the first place. The choice was made by the person (or excuse for one) who committed a capital offense. The idea of locking someone up, with no social contact and no hope of ever having freedom again, simply so you can say that is morally superior, since they will then die "naturally", seems odd to me. We don't even do that to dogs in a shelter.
    I agree that the criminal chooses his outcome. I disagree that life in prison, even solitary, is worse than death. I'm pretty sure everyone given the choice would choose to remain alive. You can't say what you would choose for sure without being in the situation.

    So, your position boils down to personal speculation. I don't find that to be a compelling reason to kill a harmless helpless person.

  3. #253
    Sage

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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    I am for the death penalty but only with the accused able to completely have the opportunity to prove his innocence. If a human is so willing to snuff out the life of another, there needs to be laws that address that. Life in prison at the cost of the taxpayer? I don't think so for then you enslave them for paying for the wrong deed done by the murderer. You take a life unjustly, you pay with your own life period.

  4. #254
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Justicd isnt about making someone whole. It is only about equitable payment for crime.
    Socratic Justice is a big part of our legal understanding.

    To be fair Socrates in his Republic, discusses Justice as being a harmony and balance in society. But it's harder to be just than unjust, even though both take effort.

    Justice is intimately connected with fairness: the idea that people should get what they deserve. Benevolence and mercy may lead us to give people more than they deserve but justice insists on their getting all and only what they deserve. Socrates was particularly concerned that injustices not be done: in particular he was concerned that people be treated according to the law and not according to the whims or desires of leaders or people in general. So even in his interpretation of Justice it had mercy as a factor, because of the ever changing desires of people in general, whereas the Law was immutable.

    Socrates was tried on two charges: corrupting the youth and impiety. And he was ultimately sentenced to death by drinking a hemlock-based liquid for his crimes.

    Upon his death speech, he said these words...

    I say then to you, O Athenians, who have condemned me to death, that immediately after my death a punishment will overtake you, far more severe, by Jupiter, than that which you have inflicted on me. For you have done this thinking you should be freed from the necessity of giving an account of your life. The very contrary however, as I affirm, will happen to you. Your accusers will be more numerous, whom I have now restrained, tho you did not perceive it; and they will be more severe, inasmuch as they are younger and you will be more indignant. For, if you think that by putting men to death you will restrain any one from upbraiding you because you do not live well, you are much mistaken; for this method of escape is neither possible nor honorable, but that other is most honorable and most easy, not to put a check upon others, but for a man to take heed to himself, how he may be most perfect. Having predicted thus much to those of you who have condemned me, I take my leave of you.
    Which basically means, you have hurt yourself more than me.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  5. #255
    Global Moderator
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    I support the death penalty for serious crimes against humanity and wicked murders (like killing children and whatnot) who kill without remorse. I also think the death should be extremely painful and undignified.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  6. #256
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Socratic Justice is a big part of our legal understanding.

    To be fair Socrates in his Republic, discusses Justice as being a harmony and balance in society. But it's harder to be just than unjust, even though both take effort.

    Justice is intimately connected with fairness: the idea that people should get what they deserve. Benevolence and mercy may lead us to give people more than they deserve but justice insists on their getting all and only what they deserve. Socrates was particularly concerned that injustices not be done: in particular he was concerned that people be treated according to the law and not according to the whims or desires of leaders or people in general. So even in his interpretation of Justice it had mercy as a factor, because of the ever changing desires of people in general, whereas the Law was immutable.

    Socrates was tried on two charges: corrupting the youth and impiety. And he was ultimately sentenced to death by drinking a hemlock-based liquid for his crimes.

    Upon his death speech, he said these words...



    Which basically means, you have hurt yourself more than me.
    You want justice tempered with mercy? Nowhere else on the planet will you find that than here. Mercy comes in the form of allowing one due process, to prove his innocence. The death penalty is for those who take the life of another. Why Socrates? The trial of Socrates is the first case in recorded history when a democratic government, by due process of law, condemned a person to death for his beliefs. Athens, one of the world’s earliest democracies, raised Socrates, educated him and finally sentenced him to death, having found him guilty of religious unorthodoxy and corrupting the young. The trial and its outcome represent a political problem with which all subsequent democratic societies have struggled: how to deal with dissent. Socrates was a great influence on our founders who knew much about the struggles of religious freedoms. We do not condemn men to death because of their "beliefs". Nuff said.

  7. #257
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Actually, it is the other way around. The proponents of death penalty are driven by their emotions, "animal spirits".

    Yes, it is natural to seek vengeance.
    I mean, if were a father of one of the kids gunned down by Mr. Breivik on July 22, 2011 - well, the first thing I would do on the day he is released from prison (those super-"humane" Scandinavian laws...) is to sink as many rounds into his chest as I could, before cops bring me down.

    But.

    This is not how you build or sustain civilization. This is how you destroy it.

    Do I know what "justice" is? How? Oh, sure, it says so-and-so in a sacred book - the Torah, if I am lucky; the Complete Works of Parteigenosse Lenin/Hitler/Mao - if I was born on the wrong side of the fence....

    Screw that. I do not know what's "justice". Have I ever been to another person's brain? Felt what he or she feels? Knew what she or he knows? Suffered from exactly the same kind of madness?

    Justice is impossible. Period. Unless you are the all-knowing God. Are you?
    I am not talking about justice. I am talking about a consequence to an action. There is no emotion about it.

    You speed... you get a ticket.
    You stay out too late at 15 years-old... you get grounded.
    You murder a person... you get the Death Penalty.

    You can join the club of those falsely labelling me, at least, as being emotional but you would be extremely wrong.

    Now, if a guy killed my kid? Yeah, I would want to kill him and would if I could get away with it. In that case I am driven by emotion. That also does not negate the ethical position that the DP is the best course of action for a society in that by taking the life of a murderer, the most severe thing you can do to a person, you are showing society that you place the value of innocent life at the highest elevation. The most precious. It has nothing to do with anybody's brain or feelings... that is you being lost in emotion. I don't go there since it is irrelevant.

    But on this one, there can be no compromise: Countries worth defending do not execute helpless prisoners. I believe in America that is worth defending.
    That is your caveat and I find it illogical and frankly ridiculous. So... we can't compromise? What are you going to do about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #258
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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    it is an answer to the question of the thread.
    I know. That is why I thanked you for sharing... even sharing that answer which illuminated very little.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #259
    Light△Bender

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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    You want justice tempered with mercy? Nowhere else on the planet will you find that than here. Mercy comes in the form of allowing one due process, to prove his innocence. The death penalty is for those who take the life of another. Why Socrates? The trial of Socrates is the first case in recorded history when a democratic government, by due process of law, condemned a person to death for his beliefs. Athens, one of the world’s earliest democracies, raised Socrates, educated him and finally sentenced him to death, having found him guilty of religious unorthodoxy and corrupting the young. The trial and its outcome represent a political problem with which all subsequent democratic societies have struggled: how to deal with dissent. Socrates was a great influence on our founders who knew much about the struggles of religious freedoms. We do not condemn men to death because of their "beliefs". Nuff said.
    Due process isn't mercy, it's the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Compassion should not be reserved only for those we judge to be deserving, we temper justice with mercy to consider the individual and societal needs.

    Socrates was an example of why the death sentence is more injurious to the souls of those who inflict it. His whole point was that you can't vanquish injustice by killing its perpetrators, especially your own.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #260
    Sage

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    Re: Death Penalty, for or against

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Due process isn't mercy, it's the legal requirement that the state must respect all of the legal rights that are owed to a person. Compassion should not be reserved only for those we judge to be deserving, we temper justice with mercy to consider the individual and societal needs.

    Socrates was an example of why the death sentence is more injurious to the souls of those who inflict it. His whole point was that you can't vanquish injustice by killing its perpetrators, especially your own.
    I disagree. Due process is mercy because it allows one a chance to prove his/her innocence instead of allowing mobs to take over and seek their own kind of justice. And a government set up of laws that doesn't allow the same fate of Socrates.. Socrates' injustice was he was condemned to death soley on his beliefs. The government at that time dealt with dissent through silence by death. Thanks to the founders and their respect for Socrates, we don't do that.

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