View Poll Results: Does it actually matter?

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42. You may not vote on this poll
  • No....he deserved to die a harrible death.

    12 28.57%
  • Yes....Everyone should die with dignity.

    14 33.33%
  • I simply do not care what happened to this bastard.

    8 19.05%
  • He died a better death than his victim.

    8 19.05%
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Thread: was this actually "Botched"?

  1. #41
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    You can't seriously be claiming that an execution by firing squad hasn't been horribly botched?
    Besides, marksmen aren't trained to fire at the head, they are trained to fire at the center of mass.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #42
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Then hire some soldiers. Problem solved.

    That also...gets expensive.

    The idea is to eliminate the problem as cheaply as possible.

  3. #43
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    I always wondered why they did away with crucifixion myself.
    It didn't always work...
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  4. #44
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    It didn't always work...

  5. #45
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    That also...gets expensive.

    The idea is to eliminate the problem as cheaply as possible.
    How does that get expensive? Soldiers are already on the payroll, we have A MILLION AND A HALF OF THEM!
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #46
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    How does that get expensive? Soldiers are already on the payroll, we have A MILLION AND A HALF OF THEM!
    Though I prefer not to reply to people like yourself....I will do so in an attempt to educate.

    The united States military are not a free service to the states, even the state national guard are expensive (though subsidized). The cost of using our military for a firing squad might very well exceed the cost of current choices....though I admit I do not know the detailed cost analysis.

  7. #47
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    "McALESTER, Okla. – A botched execution that used a new drug combination left an Oklahoma inmate writhing and clenching his teeth on the gurney Tuesday, leading prison officials to halt the proceedings before the inmate's eventual death from a heart attack.
    Clayton Lockett, 38, was declared unconscious 10 minutes after the first of the state's new three-drug lethal injection combination was administered. Three minutes later, though, he began breathing heavily, writhing, clenching his teeth and straining to lift his head off the pillow.



    The blinds were eventually lowered to prevent those in the viewing gallery from watching what was happening in the death chamber, and the state's top prison official eventually called a halt to the proceedings. Lockett died of a heart attack a short time later, the Department of Corrections said.
    "It was a horrible thing to witness. This was totally botched," said Lockett's attorney, David Autry."
    Okla. inmate dies of heart attack after botched execution | Fox News


    Does it rally matter "HOW" we kill the people we decide need to die?
    It's funny, I just came from another thread where I was arguing for an absolute reading of one Amendment in the Bill of Rights, that I think is clear and unambiguous, and not open to any interpretation. A different Amendment is relevant to this discussion, which I see as being somewhat otherwise. The Eighth Amendment prohibits “cruel and unusual punishment”. We've come to treat this as meaning that when we put a criminal to death, this must be done as cleanly and humanely as possible. I think this is well beyond anything that the Eighth Amendment was intended to mean. It seems much more reasonable to me to suppose that what it meant to prohibit (and should have been written more clearly to say so) was punishment that was out of scale for the crime. For example, torturing someone to a slow, agonizing death, for the crime of stealing a candy bar.

    I have no problem with the idea of a murderer who caused his victim to suffer greatly before dying, being punished in a manner that causes him to suffer to a similar degree, before dying, and I doubt if those who wrote the Eighth Amendment would have a problem with that, either.



    Even from the absurd “humane” viewpoint,I doubt if this execution was nearly as “botched” as it is thought to be. As a matter of normal medical procedure, patients are put under general anesthesia all the time, for surgery. They are literally cut open, so that surgeons may mess with their insides, possibly cut out damaged parts, and then sew them shut before they awake. I have to think that the experience of any significant surgery would be very painful and terrifying, without anesthesia.

    I have to think that if the first step of Mr. Lockett's execution was carried out properly, he was solidly unconscious and unaware of anything that was happening to him after that—suffering no more than a patient would who is undergoing surgery. If he regained any consciousness before finally dying of a heart attack, then surely he suffered far more greatly than he would have if they had proceeded with the execution as planned, in spite of the alarming way in which Mr. Lockett's body was reacting to the drugs; or better yet, just had someone put a bullet in his brain (which is much closer, I think, to what they ought to have done in the first place).

    Really, the only thing that I think truly went wrong with this execution was that the audience was treated to a more gruesome and alarming event than they expected. They expected and were meant to see a man peacefully fall asleep, never to wake again; and instead they saw him thrashing and writhing as if in great distress.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  8. #48
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Of course it does. As digusting as this creature was, how do we show we are any better than him if we allow him to suffer unnecessarily?
    Why allow those like him to be treated as better than their victims?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  9. #49
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    Of course it does. As digusting as this creature was, how do we show we are any better than him if we allow him to suffer unnecessarily?
    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The actions of the state should not be measured against the actions of the criminal. That's the road to barbarity.
    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    I tend to believe in eye for an eye, though excessive brutality does take one to the same level as the scum.

    The execution wasn't planned to turn out that way, but I can't say I carry any sympathy for him that it did.
    I think there is something that we need to admit about criminal justice, especially where capital punishment is concerned.

    There is a line that we are undeniably crossing, when we take someone's life. There is a line that we are crossing, even when we deprive a man of his freedom, and lock him in prison.

    It would be better for us to never have to cross this line, but that's not how the world works. I think there is no point in denying that the line is crossed, or pretending that we can avoid crossing the line if we go about doing so in a manner that we imagine is somehow “humane” or “civilized”.

    When we have to cross this line, I see no reason to hold back short of crossing it to the degree that is appropriate to the crime we are punishing.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  10. #50
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    Re: was this actually "Botched"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    I've seen pics of a guy who survived a shotgun blast in the maw. It ain't pretty. Botches will happen with every method.
    Nothing, I'm sure, that a second blast won't fix, if necessary.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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