View Poll Results: Is there too much political correctness now?

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  • Yes, its gotten out of hand

    70 78.65%
  • No, needs more bacon

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Thread: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

  1. #231
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The founders, nor the citizens of the time ever practiced the sort of freedom you seek. They berated each other for having political and social orientations all the time and exercised pressure to ensure that it stayed that way. Social and thought control was practically the hallmark for our separation from Britain.

    Again, you're in a fantasy world that never existed.
    Well, I respectfully disagree. In the Founder's speeches, in their writings to each other, and in their dealings with each other, I can't find a shred of PC in any of it. I think every single one of them would find the PC police of modern times abhorrent and everything opposite of what the Founders intended this country to be/
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    In the Founder's speeches, in their writings to each other, and in their dealings with each other, I can't find a shred of PC in any of it. I think every single one of them would find the PC police of modern times abhorrent and everything opposite of what the Founders intended this country to be/
    So you have no awareness of the Sons of Liberty's activity, how the Founders dealt with African American issues, how they perceived more traditionalist Brit-Americans after the war, or any other instances of democracy's mob mentality? Goodness, even after the second generation, you'd think someone like yourself would at least be able to address Tocqueville.

    The founding generation would find much to their dismay. That wouldn't be denied, but they employed social pressure like anyone else.

    I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America. In any constitutional state in Europe every sort of religious and political theory may be freely preached and disseminated; for there is no country in Europe so subdued by any single authority as not to protect the man who raises his voice in the cause of truth from the consequences of his hardihood. If he is unfortunate enough to live under an absolute government, the people are often on his side; if he inhabits a free country, he can, if necessary, find a shelter behind the throne. The aristocratic part of society supports him in some countries, and the democracy in others. But in a nation where democratic institutions exist, organized like those of the United States, there is but one authority, one element of strength and success, with nothing beyond it.

    In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them. Not that he is in danger of an auto-da-fe‚, but he is exposed to continued obloquy and persecution. His political career is closed forever, since he has offended the only authority that is able to open it. Every sort of compensation, even that of celebrity, is refused to him. Before making public his opinions he thought he had sympathizers; now it seems to him that he has none any more since he has revealed himself to everyone; then those who blame him criticize loudly and those who think as he does keep quiet and move away without courage. He yields at length, overcome by the daily effort which he has to make, and subsides into silence, as if he felt remorse for having spoken the truth. – Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, Ch 15.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #233
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    So you have no awareness of the Sons of Liberty's activity, how the Founders dealt with African American issues, how they perceived more traditionalist Brit-Americans after the war, or any other instances of democracy's mob mentality? Goodness, even after the second generation, you'd think someone like yourself would at least be able to address Tocqueville.

    The founding generation would find much to their dismay. That wouldn't be denied, but they employed social pressure like anyone else.
    I actually did a major college paper on Tocqueville in college. He knew the difference between politics and liberty and politics and political correctness (though that phrase had not yet been coined in his day) too which your post suggests you may not know the difference.

    Social pressure is one thing--aLL our laws used to result from that to protect unalienable rights when these days they are too often passed to give government more control to dictate to the people what their rights will be. Political correctness is not social pressure. Political correctness is ideological and self righteous bullying. I know the difference between those two things too.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #234
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I actually did a major college paper on Tocqueville in college. He knew the difference between politics and liberty and politics and political correctness (though that phrase had not yet been coined in his day) too which your post suggests you may not know the difference.

    Social pressure is one thing--aLL our laws used to result from that to protect unalienable rights when these days they are too often passed to give government more control to dictate to the people what their rights will be. Political correctness is not social pressure. Political correctness is ideological and self righteous bullying. I know the difference between those two things too.
    And somehow the social pressure isn't ideological?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #235
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    It's just the signs of conservative mainstream culture dying. Large amounts of conservative culture is being relegated to fringe groups while formerly liberal fringe groups are becoming more mainstream.

  6. #236
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    And somehow the social pressure isn't ideological?
    The social pressures that Tocqueville would have aproved or that the Founders would have approved were not in any way ideological. They were all voluntary and not to be enforced first, and were in the interest of individual liberties/unalienable rights second and the general welfare, third.

    The idea that an angry mob should descend on somebody for no other offense than the person held an opinion the mob didn't like would have been unthinkable to all of them. Nevertheless they did not see that it was the federal government's authority or jurisdiction to prevent those colonies who DID practice political correctness from doing so. They trusted a free people to learn and grow and correct its mistakes.

    They were to a man determined that the federal government have no authority of any kind to dictate to any citizen what he or she was required to think, speak, or believe about anything.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #237
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The social pressures that Tocqueville would have aproved or that the Founders would have approved were not in any way ideological. They were all voluntary and not to be enforced first, and were in the interest of individual liberties/unalienable rights second.
    Being voluntary does not remove ideology. Furthermore, your definition of voluntary seems to fly in the face of what Tocqueville actually stated, observed, and what countless others had experienced in the past.

    The idea that an angry mob should descend on somebody for no other offense than the person held an opinion the mob didn't like would have been unthinkable to all of them. Nevertheless they did not see that it was the federal government's authority or jurisdiction to prevent those colonies who DID practice political correctness from doing so. They trusted a free people to learn and grow and correct its mistakes.
    My fifth great uncle didn't seem to mind too much when he and the Sons of Liberty went on their terror sprees against not only employees of the Crown, but also those that were mere loyalists. Political correctness does not need to have the federal government involved, but it can.

    They were to a man determined that the federal government have no authority of any kind to dictate to any citizen what he or she was required to think, speak, or believe about anything.
    That's not true, as we have had legal ruination of speech in the first two administrations, but that's not a requirement of political correctness either. The public could ensure that a man would be persecuted for his social and political opinions.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  8. #238
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Don't believe in fairness, huh? Bet you would if you were on the wrong end of unfair practices.
    Perhaps, but I doubt it.

    I've won some and lost some, and have never really felt that fairness should be enforced. I'd rather have the opportunity to fail in a free system than be protected in a controlled system.

  9. #239
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Perhaps, but I doubt it.

    I've won some and lost some, and have never really felt that fairness should be enforced. I'd rather have the opportunity to fail in a free system than be protected in a controlled system.

    You know what makes us different than the animal kingdoms 'survival of the fittest' or civilized? Our laws, based on equity.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You know what makes us different than the animal kingdoms 'survival of the fittest' or civilized? Our laws, based on equity.
    Weird, I always thought it was the combination of opposable thumbs and the ability to vocalize intelligible words.

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