View Poll Results: Is there too much political correctness now?

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  • Yes, its gotten out of hand

    70 78.65%
  • No, needs more bacon

    19 21.35%
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Thread: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

  1. #171
    Educator Starbuck's Avatar
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Unless there is a clear agreement within the social contract--conditions of a business license for instance--no business person should be forced to do business with or provide services for somebody or something that they believe to be morally or ethically wrong. And nobody should be forced to do business with that business owner for any reason.
    This is all very true, which is why I don't see where you have a problem with customers organizing and boycotting a business. Sure, in many cases this might destroy a business or a persons career, but doesn't that fit with the claim you've made above.

    Those customers have the right to boycott that business as much as the business has the right to boycott the customers, unfortunately as is often the case, the business dies first. Especially in a business providing non-essential items (i.e. wedding cakes).

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Unless we are all free to be who and what we are, short of violating anybody else's rights, there is no liberty at all and none of us have any rights at all.
    Thing is, everyone does have the right to be who and what they are, but there can be consequences within the realm of free speech/ expression.

    It almost invariably comes down to the principles of darwin and/ or the free market.

  2. #172
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    If you've ever read George Washington's list...almost everything in it could be considered political correctness for his day.


    George Washington's Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior @ Foundations Magazine

  3. #173
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If you've ever read George Washington's list...almost everything in it could be considered political correctness for his day.


    George Washington's Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior @ Foundations Magazine
    I disagree with rule 13

  4. #174
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    This is all very true, which is why I don't see where you have a problem with customers organizing and boycotting a business. Sure, in many cases this might destroy a business or a persons career, but doesn't that fit with the claim you've made above.

    Those customers have the right to boycott that business as much as the business has the right to boycott the customers, unfortunately as is often the case, the business dies first. Especially in a business providing non-essential items (i.e. wedding cakes).



    Thing is, everyone does have the right to be who and what they are, but there can be consequences within the realm of free speech/ expression.

    It almost invariably comes down to the principles of darwin and/ or the free market.
    Why? If I say I support traditional marriage or I am pro life or I am pro choice or I am Atheist or I am an alien from Mars, but I am violating nobody else's rights and I am not forcing my opinions or belief upon anybody; what gives you a RIGHT to organize a boycott and damage my business because you don't like my point of view? How is that not a restraint of my legal trade? A violation of my person and right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How is that not a violation of my unalienable rights to be who and what I am? How do you justify it on any kind of sense of justice, fair play, or morality?

    And if you are convinced that such boycotts are the American way then is it okay to organize a boycott against the minority owned business? The women owned business? The gay guy who opens up a shop? The person who speaks out in favor of political correctness? Where do you draw the line? Or do you?

    (For the record I think trying to intentionally hurt somebody's livelihood or drive a person out for such reasons is entirely immoral, should be culturally taboo, and should be illegal.)
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 05-04-14 at 02:29 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #175
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Why? If I say I support traditional marriage or I am pro life or I am pro choice or I am Atheist or I am an alien from Mars, but I am violating nobody else's rights and I am not forcing my opinions or belief upon anybody; what gives you a RIGHT to organize a boycott and damage my business because you don't like my point of view?
    Boycotting and/ or organizing is a form of expression and opinion. So, I'd say the same ideal that gives you the right to express your support of traditional marriage or atheism is what gives me the right to organize and boycott.

    I don't actually see how someone who is upset about not being able to express their opinions without fear of reprisal can disagree with a group of people doing the exact same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    How is that not a restraint of my legal trade? A violation of my person and right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How is that not a violation of my unalienable rights to be who and what I am?
    Only the government can violate your right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Anything short of the government coming down and taking what is yours and/ or telling you what to do is a civil matter. Unfortunately, most companies have little to no luck fighting boycotts in court.

    It really comes down to which side can last longer, or at all, under the circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And if you are convinced that such boycotts are the American way then is it okay to organize a boycott against the minority owned business? The women owned business? The gay guy who opens up a shop? The person who speaks out in favor of political correctness? Where do you draw the line? Or do you?
    Sure it's okay to organize a boycott against any business, if someone doesn't like a business, how its run or what someone said in relation to said business, they can boycott.

    And for the record, boycotts against minority and/ or women owned business was the way of life for decades and decades. Hell, people used to boycott businesses for even doing business with minorities in the past.

    Still might in some pockets of the country.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    (For the record I think trying to intentionally hurt somebody's livelihood or drive a person out for such reasons is entirely immoral, should be culturally taboo, and should be illegal.)
    To an extent I agree with you, however I'm also a big proponent of the free market, and boycotts are just a function of said market.

  6. #176
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Why? If I say I support traditional marriage or I am pro life or I am pro choice or I am Atheist or I am an alien from Mars, but I am violating nobody else's rights and I am not forcing my opinions or belief upon anybody; what gives you a RIGHT to organize a boycott and damage my business because you don't like my point of view? How is that not a restraint of my legal trade? A violation of my person and right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How is that not a violation of my unalienable rights to be who and what I am? How do you justify it on any kind of sense of justice, fair play, or morality?

    And if you are convinced that such boycotts are the American way then is it okay to organize a boycott against the minority owned business? The women owned business? The gay guy who opens up a shop? The person who speaks out in favor of political correctness? Where do you draw the line? Or do you?

    (For the record I think trying to intentionally hurt somebody's livelihood or drive a person out for such reasons is entirely immoral, should be culturally taboo, and should be illegal.)
    Chick-fil-a comes to mind! The fact that they offer free breakfasts to the needy seems to be something that need not be considered, according to the haters among us! :

  7. #177
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Chick-fil-a comes to mind! The fact that they offer free breakfasts to the needy seems to be something that need not be considered, according to the haters among us! :
    Sure it should be considered, and I'd argue that thousands of people still patronize their establishments on a daily basis. Many of whom, I'm quite sure appreciate that they give to the needy.

    I however, have not gone into a Chick-fil-a in years, because I don't think their contribution to the needy (in the form of fast food) out weighs the damage they've caused to the LGBT community. After years of people boycotting Chick-fil-a, and them still doing good business, I'd say that the free market as ruled in their favor.

  8. #178
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Chick-fil-a comes to mind! The fact that they offer free breakfasts to the needy seems to be something that need not be considered, according to the haters among us! :
    That is an excellent example. Dan Cathy was not accused of any discrimination in hiring practices, who his restaurants served, and implemented Christian principles in all his business practices including closing on Sundays so all his personnel who chose to do so could attend church. Non Christian employees who ask for time to attend Synagogue or Mosque services etc. are accommodated. In addition he gives away millions of his money in scholarships and to help folks attend retreat centers, kids to go to summer camps, and many charities.

    So why did the angry mob assemble and try to punish him? Because he openly personally expressed his Christian conviction that God intended marriage to be between a man and a woman. That had nothing whatsoever to do with his business or anybody or anything else, but it was sufficient for the PC police to try to destroy him as much as possible.

    To do that is wrong. It is unAmerican. It is evil.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #179
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Boycotting and/ or organizing is a form of expression and opinion. So, I'd say the same ideal that gives you the right to express your support of traditional marriage or atheism is what gives me the right to organize and boycott.

    I don't actually see how someone who is upset about not being able to express their opinions without fear of reprisal can disagree with a group of people doing the exact same thing.




    Only the government can violate your right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Anything short of the government coming down and taking what is yours and/ or telling you what to do is a civil matter. Unfortunately, most companies have little to no luck fighting boycotts in court.

    It really comes down to which side can last longer, or at all, under the circumstances.



    Sure it's okay to organize a boycott against any business, if someone doesn't like a business, how its run or what someone said in relation to said business, they can boycott.

    And for the record, boycotts against minority and/ or women owned business was the way of life for decades and decades. Hell, people used to boycott businesses for even doing business with minorities in the past.

    Still might in some pockets of the country.




    To an extent I agree with you, however I'm also a big proponent of the free market, and boycotts are just a function of said market.
    I have not been arguing against what CAN BE DONE. I am arguing for a principle. I want all who have any sense of justice and fair play and/or who value liberty and unalienable rights would see how evil it is and how destructive to liberty it is to presume to punish people for no other offense than they hold an opinion.

    And I hope there are more who value individual liberty and unalienable rights than there are self righteous assholes who think they have the right to tell other people what they are required to think, believe, hope for in order to be allowed to live in peace.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #180
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    Re: Is There Too Much Political Correctness Now?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    So why did the angry mob assemble and try to punish him? Because he openly personally expressed his Christian conviction that God intended marriage to be between a man and a woman. That had nothing whatsoever to do with his business or anybody or anything else, but it was sufficient for the PC police to try to destroy him as much as possible.
    Thing is, he did a little more than openly express his "christian" views. He also donated millions of dollars to organizations that actively worked to further bigoted legislation. So for me, I figured that a portion of every dollar spent at the establishment went to these causes that I felt were not only harmful, but blatantly ignorant.

    That was the primary reason for me no longer patronizing Chick-fil-a

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    To do that is wrong. It is unAmerican. It is evil.
    I honestly think that sitting idle while others stomp over what you find to be important is un-American, standing silent is very un-American.

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