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Is being racist a right?[W:343]

Is being racist a right


  • Total voters
    80
Explain. I don't see where Sterling violated the Constitution. He can say what he wants. As I explained in the previous post, his apparent racist beliefs never affected his actual business decisions involving the team. This is evidenced by the fact that he employed only the second black GM, currently employs a black coach, employs a mostly black team, etc, etc.

The NBA Constitution is secret. It must allow the removal of owners for things like this or the army of lawyers wouldn't allow Silver to say what he said.
 
Does the OP believe that there should not be consequences to being an asshole?
 
Does the OP believe that there should not be consequences to being an asshole?

Nope, and if there are any consequences, the owners of all the other NBA teams should have to suffer them as well. Screw the brand they have built together.
 
Does the OP believe that there should not be consequences to being an asshole?

There ARE consequences for being an asshole. If I know you (the rhetorical you) are an asshole, I am not going to choose to spend time with you, I might choose to not patronize your business, I am not going to work for you if I have any alternative, I am not going to hire you, and if you are already working for me and creating a toxic workplace for your coworkers, I will fire you.

But you have a perfect right to be an asshole and I have no legitimate right whatsoever to choose to organize an angry organization or group or mob to physically and/or materially punish you for being an asshole. Even if part of your assholedom is being racist.
 
All this media blitz on Bundy and The basketball guy has me wondering if we now have thought police in this country. I'm not racist myself but I don't see what the big deal is if you are. We have laws to protect people from racism so your opinion should be a right and you should not be punished for what you believe. IMO firing someone for being a racist is anti American and flies in the face of free speech.

This question is like asking "do you have the right to be ignorant and uneducated?" And of course the answer has to be "yes", because we're not all going to be equally enlightened, especially at certain points of our development. And if you can't express your ignorance, it can never be condemned so you can learn.
 
If a co-worker tells me that he/she doesn't want to be associated with me, goes on a racist rant about me, tells me I shouldn't have my job, etc, etc - am I fascist moron for demanding a consequence? Or should my co-worker be able to saying anything, no matter how racist or discriminatory? What if my boss penalizes the individual? Is it just Nazi Germany at the point?

All that aside, what about just being a racist?
 
I did not put words in your mouth and you are playing semantics now. No . . . I asked you 4-questions . . . you answered none. However, let's just say there is a big difference in saying anyone who thinks differently is a fascist and demanding punishment makes you a fascist moron. OK . . . huge difference, you win . . . now answer the questions. I'm just asking you to clear things up.

Again, I find it ironic that you claim he is personally attacking you after you stated anyone demanding punishment is a fascist moron. Therefore, anyone in this thread who thinks demanding punishment was an option . . . is a moron. Now, I do believe there is a moron taking part in this conversation . . . I just won't say who I think it is.

You did indeed put words in my mouth . I never said your opinion alone makes you a fascist, I did say wanting to punish others for their opinions makes you a fascist.

Now, I do believe there is a fascist taking part in this conversation . . . I just won't say who I think it is
 
You can be racist all you want, but the NBA and the media also have the right to chastise you for it.
 
There ARE consequences for being an asshole. If I know you (the rhetorical you) are an asshole, I am not going to choose to spend time with you, I might choose to not patronize your business, I am not going to work for you if I have any alternative, I am not going to hire you, and if you are already working for me and creating a toxic workplace for your coworkers, I will fire you.

But you have a perfect right to be an asshole and I have no legitimate right whatsoever to choose to organize an angry organization or group or mob to physically and/or materially punish you for being an asshole. Even if part of your assholedom is being racist.
If the NBA chose to do nothing and let this racist asshole have his way then their fan base may have decided to stop patronizing their business and that could cost them billions.
How is this any different from a boss firing his employee for being a racist asshole and creating a toxic workplace?
 
Has anyone explained how enforcement could even be a factor? Only, it seems somewhat remiss to speak of rights without any possibility of resistance and/or denial. I don't see that the OP is relevant to a discussion of rights, those entailing communication.

The entire discussion makes no sense. At least so far as it relates to the OP. We might as well be debating the 'right' to dream.
 
All that aside, what about just being a racist?
If the racist asshole is creating a toxic work place by expressing his racist assholeness, then the boss has every right to fire the racist asshole for that reason.
This is pretty much what the NBA has done here, but it is really more like they have thrown a racist asshole out of their private club because he was a racist asshole and they didn't want to have a racist asshole as a member..
 
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All that aside, what about just being a racist?

You're dodging my question. You said that one should be able to say whatever they want without consequence, and anyone who proposes a consequence for what someone said is a "fascist moron". Therefore, according to you, an employee of any business should be able to go on a racist tirade, make derogatory remarks to anyone they please, etc, etc, and not get fired? Right? Any employer who would choose to fire such person is a "fascist moron", right?
 
If the NBA chose to do nothing and let this racist asshole have his way then their fan base may have decided to stop patronizing their business and that could cost them billions.
How is this any different from a boss firing his employee for being a racist asshole and creating a toxic workplace?

I wasn't referring to Sterling when I wrote that, but I have said from the beginning that if Sterling broke NBA rules and there are consequences for that, then so be it. That is for him and his legal team to work out and is none of my business.

But the fact that Sterling might be a complete bigot, racist, asshole in his personal life apparently had not translated to his relationships in his organization. It is how he conducted those relationships, policies--what he actually DID--that he should be judged on professionally. Not something he said in private to a girlfriend who taped it and made it public for whatever reason.
 
I wasn't referring to Sterling when I wrote that, but I have said from the beginning that if Sterling broke NBA rules and there are consequences for that, then so be it. That is for him and his legal team to work out and is none of my business.

But the fact that Sterling might be a complete bigot, racist, asshole in his personal life apparently had not translated to his relationships in his organization. It is how he conducted those relationships, policies--what he actually DID--that he should be judged on professionally. Not something he said in private to a girlfriend who taped it and made it public for whatever reason.
Once it was out ...it was out... It was no longer a privately held belief at that point ... and he didn't try to deny it. At that point it was a toxicity to the workplace that the NBA managed.
The lesson to be learned here is that if someone is a racist asshole in a club that frowns on that mode of thinking ...they better keep it quietly under their hat.
He would still be unknown as a racist asshole, to the other members of his club, if he never expressed it to another person.
He made that mistake.
Now he must suffer the consequences of that mistake.
 
In the case of Bundy... He was seeking and enjoying the support, from politically influential people, who were arguing his case for him to freeload off of public land.
Then he revealed, quite voluntarily, that he was a racist asshole.
Bundy should have known that it is not politically expedient for a politician to support someone, for any reason, who is a racist asshole.
He made that mistake.
Now he must suffer the consequences of that mistake.
 
Well this has been an interesting thread for me. It seems that those who lean right are in favor of free speech and free thought whether they agree with it or not. Those that lean left seem to feel that any view point considered wrong by society should not be tolerated and the person in question needs punished. A re education camp policy maybe? A gulag perhaps?:lol:
 
Once it was out ...it was out... It was no longer a privately held belief at that point ... and he didn't try to deny it. At that point it was a toxicity to the workplace that the NBA managed.
The lesson to be learned here is that if someone is a racist asshole in a club that frowns on that mode of thinking ...they better keep it quietly under their hat.
He would still be unknown as a racist asshole, to the other members of his club, if he never expressed it to another person.
He made that mistake.
Now he must suffer the consequences of that mistake.

Well God help us all if EVERYTHING we think, say, write, or express in private--what we never intended to be made public--is fair game for those who will go to any lengths to find something to use to discredit or smear us, and we are all subject to consequences for being who and what we are. That leaves the door wide open to destroy a person's relationships, get him/her fired from any job, barred from any organization, unable to compete, unable to live his/her life in peace. Every one of us then has to measure every single word or expressed thought--walk on constant eggshells lest we let something inadvertently slip that somebody will use to ruin us.

We either believe in unalienable rights, liberty, the complete freedom to be who and what we are so long as we do not require unwilling participation or contribution, i.e. violate the rights, of any other, or we give those with the most power the ability to dictate what we must do, be, believe, say, or think in order to avoid being destroyed. And when we get to that point, there is no more liberty and no real rights at all. There is only that which some authority will allow and can change on a whim.
 
Well this has been an interesting thread for me. It seems that those who lean right are in favor of free speech and free thought whether they agree with it or not. Those that lean left seem to feel that any view point considered wrong by society should not be tolerated and the person in question needs punished. A re education camp policy maybe? A gulag perhaps?:lol:
In both the case of the racist asshole Bundy and the case of the racist asshole "the basketball guy" the "punishment" has not come from any state agency or board or bureau or governmental institution so this bleating about a gulag is just political bullshat.
The "punishment" came from political / societal pressures and from peers.
In fact neither were "punishments" per se ...they were really just the societal consequences of being racist assholes.
 
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Well God help us all if EVERYTHING we think, say, write, or express in private--what we never intended to be made public--is fair game for those who will go to any lengths to find something to use to discredit or smear us, and we are all subject to consequences for being who and what we are. That leaves the door wide open to destroy a person's relationships, get him/her fired from any job, barred from any organization, unable to compete, unable to live his/her life in peace. Every one of us then has to measure every single word or expressed thought--walk on constant eggshells lest we let something inadvertently slip that somebody will use to ruin us.

We either believe in unalienable rights, liberty, the complete freedom to be who and what we are so long as we do not require unwilling participation or contribution, i.e. violate the rights, of any other, or we give those with the most power the ability to dictate what we must do, be, believe, say, or think in order to avoid being destroyed. And when we get to that point, there is no more liberty and no real rights at all. There is only that which some authority will allow and can change on a whim.
I'll bet that pedophiles who quietly keep a bunch of child pornography privately in their homes who are outed and pay the the consequences, think that their "inalienable rights" were violated too.
 
I'll bet that pedophiles who quietly keep a bunch of child pornography privately in their homes who are outed and pay the the consequences, think that their "inalienable rights" were violated too.

What anybody does in the privacy of their own homes that requires no contribution or participation from any other person; i.e. violates nobody's unalienable rights, is their own business. It is only in the buying/selling of what the law deems illegal and/or the acting out in illegal ways that should be anybody's business. So fit your red herring into that equation and you have your answer.

Sterling for instance was in a private moment and was not doing anything illegal or unethical in any way. He was violating nobody's rights. He was just being who and what he is. And though who and what he is probably is somebody I wouldn't want to be around, it is otherwise none of my business whatsoever.
 
What anybody does in the privacy of their own homes that requires no contribution or participation from any other person; i.e. violates nobody's unalienable rights, is their own business. It is only in the buying/selling of what the law deems illegal and/or the acting out in illegal ways that should be anybody's business. So fit your red herring into that equation and you have your answer.

Sterling for instance was in a private moment and was not doing anything illegal or unethical in any way. He was violating nobody's rights. He was just being who and what he is. And though who and what he is probably is somebody I wouldn't want to be around, it is otherwise none of my business whatsoever.

The part of the equation that you missed is that Sterling was in what basically amounted to a big private club (the NBA). It was the business of that club whose constituency is largely black.
They were perfectly within their prerogatives to toss him out on his racist ass if they found out the convictions that he secretly harbored and was willing to express to at least one person.
Nothing needed to be illegal to be found abhorrent to his club. He was a stupid asshole, the organization he was part of thought so and now he pays the consequences.
Nobody's laws or rights were violated. Societal consequences came to bear on a racist asshole.
I have no problem with that at all.
 
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You did indeed put words in my mouth . I never said your opinion alone makes you a fascist, I did say wanting to punish others for their opinions makes you a fascist.

Now, I do believe there is a fascist taking part in this conversation . . . I just won't say who I think it is

You are too funny. But not in a laugh with YOU funny kinda way. Nope . . . it's a LAUGH AT YOU kind of funny. I asked you 4-questions . . . answer one. Never mind, it would defeat the whole purpose of your thread. You are by far the least original . .. non-thinking/non-reading member of the forum. So, how did that work out for you Sparky?

I truly gasp at the message you and your ilk try to pass along. You give me COPD . . . I hope OBAMACARE takes care of me. It's surely taking care of you unless you are a liar.
 
The part of the equation that you missed is that Sterling was in what basically amounted to a big private club (the NBA). It was the business of that club whose constituency is largely black.
They were perfectly within their prerogatives to toss him out on his racist ass if they found out the convictions that he secretly harbored and was willing to express to at least one person.
Nothing needed to be illegal to be found abhorrent to his club. He was a stupid asshole, the organization he was part of thought so and now he pays the consequences.
Nobody's laws or rights were violated. Societal consequences came to bear on a racist asshole.
I have no problem with that at all.

Whatever agreements/rules/regulations are involved between Sterling and the NBA are their business. Not yours. Not mine. Not anybody else's. For the race baiters and other 'holier than thou' types to chime on this is, in my opinion, is disgraceful and should be as condemned as much as anything Sterling said. I am NOT condoning or supporting anything Sterling said. I in fact think he probably is a racist jerk. But as long as he keeps that private and it does not affect anybody else, it should have remained private. I wonder who paid the girlfriend to tape it and make it public?
 
Whatever agreements/rules/regulations are involved between Sterling and the NBA are their business. Not yours. Not mine. Not anybody else's. For the race baiters and other 'holier than thou' types to chime on this is, in my opinion, is disgraceful and should be as condemned as much as anything Sterling said. I am NOT condoning or supporting anything Sterling said. I in fact think he probably is a racist jerk. But as long as he keeps that private and it does not affect anybody else, it should have remained private. I wonder who paid the girlfriend to tape it and make it public?
Maybe she, being a proud woman of color did this on her own volition ...ever thought of that?
I never offered my opinion on Sterling.
I was asked my opinion in this stupid poll.
 
Maybe she, being a proud woman of color did this on her own volition ...ever thought of that?
I never offered my opinion on Sterling.
I was asked my opinion in this stupid poll.

I wasn't faulting you or anything you said. I took your comments as just participating in the discussion. But if she did this because she is a 'proud woman of color', she is as racist as he is. If she did it to punish or get even with him for something he did, she is just a regular vindictive bitch. If she did it for money, she is despicable. Friends don't do things like that to friends. Honorable people don't win the trust of somebody pretending to be a friend and then trash it like that.
 
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