People’s Mayor of Slaviansk Proposes Swap for OSCE Team

[DaveFagan]

Two part thread, must read post # 2 before responding to poll.
The poll question relate to MEDIA BIAS or lack thereof.

People’s Mayor of Slaviansk Proposes Swap for OSCE Team
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140428/189...of-Slaviansk-Proposes-Swap-for-OSCE-Team.html

"SLAVIANSK, April 28 (RIA Novosti) – Military observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe being held as prisoners of war in eastern Ukraine’s Slaviansk could be freed in exchange for the release of federalization supporters taken hostage by Kiev, the city’s people’s mayor said Monday.
“In particular, we demand the release of my deputy Ihor Perepechayenko,” Vyacheslav Ponomaryov said. “To put it crudely, he was kidnapped and now his whereabouts are unknown,” he added.
Ponomaryov said last week his ally Perepechayenko was detained by the Ukrainian Security Service at an airport in the city of Donetsk as he was returning from Moscow, where he had taken part in a political talk show at a Russian TV channel.
“A range of our supporters, our friends are being held by the junta. If we have such a chance, we are ready for the swap,” Ponomaryov said.
Last week, federalization supporters stopped a bus carrying OSCE monitors at a checkpoint and found that the observers were accompanied by Ukrainian officers, Ponomarev said. The activists detained 11 members of the military mission, eight Europeans and three Ukrainians among them, who are suspected of “espionage,” Ponomaryov said. The driver of the OSCE bus, a citizen of Ukraine, has been released.
After talks on Sunday, the self-defense forces agreed to release one of the OSCE team’s members, a Swedish military officer named Ingvi Thomas Johanson. A source in the self-defense forces said Johanson was freed as “he had health problems and Sweden is not a NATO member state, and also as a show of good intentions and negotiability.”
The OSCE said in a statement on its website that Johanson is diabetic.
The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine was deployed by a request of Ukraine’s government and a consensus agreement by all 57 OSCE member countries. “The monitors are to contribute to reducing tensions and fostering peace, stability and security,” the OSCE said.
Ukraine’s presidential candidate Oleh Tsarev, who is mediating the talks, demanded the organization pressure Kiev to release federalization supporters. He said under the Geneva deal, conflicting sides are to release those detained at protest rallies and grant amnesty to political prisoners.
Eastern Ukraine has been hit by pro-federalization protests in mainly Russian-speaking regions. The Ukrainian government earlier announced a special operation to crack down on the unrest."

Why are 3 Ukrainian military with the OSCE observors?
Why are OSCE observors from NATO Military?
Note that the non-NATO observor was released?
The non-military driver of the bus was released?
Why is OSCE referred to as a military mission, instead of peaceful observors?

 

[DaveFagan]

Same story as post # 1 from Associated Press

Observers held in Ukraine speak under armed guard
Observers held in Ukraine speak under armed guard

"The Associated Press
Published: April 27, 2014 | Updated: April 27, 2014 at 09:13 PM

SLOVYANSK, Ukraine — Pro-Russian militants in camouflage fatigues and black balaclavas paraded captive European military observers before the media on Sunday, hours after three captured Ukrainian security guards were shown bloodied, blindfolded and stripped of their trousers and shoes, their arms bound with packing tape.
The provocative displays came as the increasingly ruthless pro-Russian insurgency in the east turns to kidnapping as an ominous new tactic.
Dozens of people are being held hostage, including journalists and pro-Ukraine activists, in makeshift jails in Slovyansk, the heart of the separatists’ territory, as the pro-Russian insurgents strengthen their control in defiance of the interim government in Kiev and its Western supporters.
Speaking in deliberate and clipped phrases, Col. Axel Schneider of Germany, speaking on behalf of the observers, insisted they were not NATO spies, as claimed by the insurgents, but a military observation mission operating under the auspices of the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe.
“We are not fighters, we are diplomats in uniform,” he said, noting that his unarmed team included an officer from Sweden, which is not a NATO member.
The observers appeared nervous as they were escorted by the masked armed men into the Slovyansk city hall for the news conference.
Referring to himself and his team as “guests” under the “protection” of the city’s self-proclaimed mayor, Schneider said they were being treated as well as possible under the circumstances.
“The mayor of this city granted us his protection and he regarded us as his guests,” Schneider told journalists. “I can tell you that the word of the mayor is a word of honor. We have not been touched.”
Schneider said his group, which was detained by pro-Russian militiamen outside Slovyansk on Friday, was initially kept in a basement before being moved Saturday.
“Since yesterday, we have been in a more comfortable room, which has been equipped with heating. We have daylight and an air conditioning unit,” he said, “All our officers, including the interpreters, are healthy and well.”
The spectacle of accredited diplomats being presented to the media as what Slovyansk’s insurgency-appointed mayor, Vyacheslav Ponomarev, has described as “bargaining chips” provoked disgust in European capitals.
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier condemned it as “revolting” and a violation of the men’s dignity. Four members of the team are German.
One of the observers, Swedish officer Maj. Thomas Johansson, was released later in the day “on humanitarian grounds as he has a mild form of diabetes,” said Stella Khorosheva, a spokeswoman for the Slovyansk mayor. The officer got into a car with OSCE representatives outside city hall and drove off with them.Schneider, who was speaking before the Swede was freed, said he had no information about when they would be released and that this was a matter for diplomats of their countries. The group also includes officers from Poland, Denmark and the Czech Republic.
The German colonel said he understood that the Slovyansk mayor could use the observers as a bargaining chip.
“Our presence here in Slovyansk is for sure a political instrument for the decision makers here in the region and the possibility to use it for negotiations,” Schneider said. “It’s logical in the eyes of Mayor Ponomarev that he can use us to present his positions.”
Ponomarev said Saturday the European observers could be released in exchange for jailed pro-Russia activists.
Overnight Saturday, the insurgents captured three Ukrainian security guards, who were shown to Russian journalists in the security service headquarters in Slovyansk. Barely concious and showing signs of sustained beating, they sat with their heads bowed.
In footage obtained by The Associated Press, Russian reporters could be heard haranguing the officers, who were able to reply only in faintly audible monosyllables.
Igor Strelkov, who has been identified as the commander of the armed insurgents, said the three Ukrainian officers were on a mission to seize leaders of the pro-Russia force when they were captured.
Ukraine’s Security Service confirmed that its officers had been seized by armed men and said they were on a mission to detain a Russian citizen suspected in the killing of a Ukrainian parliament member.
Also on Sunday, several hundred pro-Russia activists stormed the television broadcasting center in Donetsk, the regional capital of eastern Ukraine, to demand that Russian state channels be put back on the air. The Kiev government last month blocked broadcast of the Russian channels, which serve as propaganda tools for the Kremlin.
The crowd included several dozen men wearing camouflage fatigues and face masks, the standard uniform of the pro-Russia forces that have seized government buildings in at least 10 cities in eastern Ukraine.
The Ukrainian government and the West have accused Russia of using covert forces to encourage the unrest in eastern Ukraine, and Strelkov has been identified as a Russian security services operative by Ukraine’s government.
In what appeared to be a closely vetted interview to Russian media, Strelkov did not directly deny the accusation, saying the uprising in Ukraine was being carried out by opponents of the “Kiev junta” — language similar in tone to that adopted by the Kremlin leadership.
The U.S. and other nations in the Group of Seven have announced plans to impose additional economic sanctions on Russia in response to its actions in Ukraine. The European Union also is planning more sanctions, with ambassadors from the bloc’s 28 members to meet Monday in Brussels to add to the list of Russian officials who have been hit by asset freezes and travel bans.
New penalties expected this week against Moscow for its actions against Ukraine will include high technology exports to the Russian defense industry and the companies controlled by those closest to President Vladimir Putin, a White House aide said Sunday.
Deputy National Security Adviser Tony Blinken said the U.S. and its allies will designate new sanctions against people in Putin’s inner circle and the companies they control that have “a significant impact on the Russian economy.”
“We’ll be looking at taking steps as well with regard to high technology exports to their defense industry. All of this together is going to have an impact,” Blinken said, without providing details. He made his comments on CNN’s “State of the Union,” CBS’ “Face the Nation” and NBC’s “Meet the Press.”
Earlier Sunday, President Barack Obama said in Malaysia that the U.S. would be in a stronger position to deter Putin once Putin sees the world is unified in punishing Russia.
British Foreign Secretary William Hague echoed the sentiment. “The more names we add to that list, the more they do bite in the Russian economy,” Hague said on Sky News. “But we are also working on more far-reaching measures of economic, trade and financial sanctions. ... We will go ahead with them if necessary, if Russia continues to escalate this crisis.”

 

[MMC]

Mornin' DF. :2wave: These sanctions they are talking about does nothing. We can't hurt them thru their Military.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...arget-russias-defense-industry-others-us.html

As for Putin's inner Circle. Team O has waited to long. In which those people secured their assets.

Both sides are controlling the Media......but that doesn't mean information cannot be gained.

 

[DaveFagan]

Mornin' DF. :2wave: These sanctions they are talking about does nothing. We can't hurt them thru their Military.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...arget-russias-defense-industry-others-us.html

As for Putin's inner Circle. Team O has waited to long. In which those people secured their assets.

Both sides are controlling the Media......but that doesn't mean information cannot be gained.

I observe the Ukraine crisis to be a move by The Centralized Distribution of Energy (might control the USA gov't, wars in Energy hubs) to attempt to gain some control of the Energy Distribution by Russia. Russia is outside their banking clique and if it increases its' distribution to the EU, it will gain influence in EU energy and banking decisions. You know that you and I and grandma and the dog don't give a rat's ass about these matters, but the geoPolitical strategists and money controllers feel sumpin' slippin'. I'm absolutely against hegemony and sincerely believe in human rights and I don't see human rights in this picture. The USA has allied with big Banks and Energy against the people. Not a good thing. I put these two articles up to demonstrate how manipulated the Associated Press actually is. Both sides have an agenda, but RIA Novosti generally just covered the facts of this story and that is what I prefer in my news.

 

[MMC]

I observe the Ukraine crisis to be a move by The Centralized Distribution of Energy (might control the USA gov't, wars in Energy hubs) to attempt to gain some control of the Energy Distribution by Russia. Russia is outside their banking clique and if it increases its' distribution to the EU, it will gain influence in EU energy and banking decisions. You know that you and I and grandma and the dog don't give a rat's ass about these matters, but the geoPolitical strategists and money controllers feel sumpin' slippin'. I'm absolutely against hegemony and sincerely believe in human rights and I don't see human rights in this picture. The USA has allied with big Banks and Energy against the people. Not a good thing. I put these two articles up to demonstrate how manipulated the Associated Press actually is. Both sides have an agenda, but RIA Novosti generally just covered the facts of this story and that is what I prefer in my news.

I am all for the people of Ukraine deciding themselves what they want to do .....for me this isn't our fight. And I am definitely against giving the Ukraine 37 Billion. That 37 Billion could cut into Uncle Sequester......huh? Maybe pay for some of Bo Cares Special Package and its fixes. Plus whats to come.

 

[polgara]

I am all for the people of Ukraine deciding themselves what they want to do .....for me this isn't our fight. And I am definitely against giving the Ukraine 37 Billion. That 37 Billion could cut into Uncle Sequester......huh? Maybe pay for some of Bo Cares Special Package and its fixes. Plus whats to come.

Why do we feel compelled to give the Ukrainians any money at all? Why isn't the EU helping them - they sure have more reason to, geographically speaking! And what will the Ukranians do with said money? I haven't noticed anyone giving us money, and we have a $17 trillion debt, but no one feels sorry for us. Oh, the Chinese will lend us money, and we eagerly accept their largesse, but we are expected to pay it back - which is as it should be. Now I read that the Chinese have overtaken the Russians in buying up some of the most valuable properties in this Country, but we, the taxpayers, don't get any benefit from that! Something is wrong with that picture, IMO.

Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

 

[MMC]

Why do we feel compelled to give the Ukrainians any money at all? Why isn't the EU helping them - they sure have more reason to, geographically speaking! And what will the Ukranians do with said money? I haven't noticed anyone giving us money, and we have a $17 trillion debt, but no one feels sorry for us. Oh, the Chinese will lend us money, and we eagerly accept their largesse, but we are expected to pay it back - which is as it should be. Now I read that the Chinese have overtaken the Russians in buying up some of the most valuable properties in this Country, but we, the taxpayers, don't get any benefit from that! Something is wrong with that picture, IMO.

Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

Heya Lady P.....I heard the IMF will give them money. So the EU will be sending something.

 

[DaveFagan]

Why do we feel compelled to give the Ukrainians any money at all? Why isn't the EU helping them - they sure have more reason to, geographically speaking! And what will the Ukranians do with said money? I haven't noticed anyone giving us money, and we have a $17 trillion debt, but no one feels sorry for us. Oh, the Chinese will lend us money, and we eagerly accept their largesse, but we are expected to pay it back - which is as it should be. Now I read that the Chinese have overtaken the Russians in buying up some of the most valuable properties in this Country, but we, the taxpayers, don't get any benefit from that! Something is wrong with that picture, IMO.

Greetings, MMC. :2wave:

When US $100 bills return to the USA, they are like a check being honored. What good are those $100 bills if you can't buy something. Now China has trillions of those bills and do you want more paper or something tangible like real estate, timber, energy leases, or whatever, but definitely not taxable. That is the downside (property taxes) of real estate. China must continually be on the lookout for good USA investments that hold value but don't eat up the principal. If you just sell the dollars, you create a surplus in the market and lower the value of those dollars, so some good judgement is required.

 

[rocket88]

RIA is definitely and proudly controlled by the Russian government.

While I wouldn't necessarily call AP "controlled," they certainly are skewed toward the official American position on this.

 

[DaveFagan]

Heya Lady P.....I heard the IMF will give them money. So the EU will be sending something.

The IMF will GIVE them nothing. They will lend them money and a lot of that money will wind up servicing debts to big banks currently due. The BANKERS will do just fine and get great buying opportunities on assets the Ukraine will be forced to privatize. "The rich will get richer." Same ol' crap, different day."

 

[MMC]

The IMF will GIVE them nothing. They will lend them money and a lot of that money will wind up servicing debts to big banks currently due. The BANKERS will do just fine and get great buying opportunities on assets the Ukraine will be forced to privatize. "The rich will get richer." Same ol' crap, different day."

Yeah, you're Right I should have said loaned them some money. :lol:

 

[polgara]

Heya Lady P.....I heard the IMF will give them money. So the EU will be sending something.

Good evening, MMC. :2wave:

I have been in back-to-back meetings since noon today, but I thought I had read somewhere that we were giving them something like $34 billion dollars from us alone. If the IMF is also giving them money, who benefits, and what are they going to use that money for? Billions of dollars could sure be put to use here, IMO, considering that our infrastructure alone is one area that is badly in need of repair. I hope I'm not sounding skeptical or selfish, but how do we benefit from fighting Russia over the Ukraine, if the people of Ukraine want to join Russia?

 

[polgara]

When US $100 bills return to the USA, they are like a check being honored. What good are those $100 bills if you can't buy something. Now China has trillions of those bills and do you want more paper or something tangible like real estate, timber, energy leases, or whatever, but definitely not taxable. That is the downside (property taxes) of real estate. China must continually be on the lookout for good USA investments that hold value but don't eat up the principal. If you just sell the dollars, you create a surplus in the market and lower the value of those dollars, so some good judgement is required.

The properties being purchased are owned by banks and big investors, so I doubt we'll benefit from the sales of same. If you or I would sell our personal homes to them, then at least we might benefit. I recall when Japan was on a roll some years back, and they were also buying US properties at that time. I don't remember receiving any money from the sale of the Pebble Beach Country Club property in California, but the owners of same did, and more power to them! Isn't the world of high finance fascinating! :shock:

Greetings, DaveFagan. :2wave:

 

[MMC]

Good evening, MMC. :2wave:

I have been in back-to-back meetings since noon today, but I thought I had read somewhere that we were giving them something like $34 billion dollars from us alone. If the IMF is also giving them money, who benefits, and what are they going to use that money for? Billions of dollars could sure be put to use here, IMO, considering that our infrastructure alone is one area that is badly in need of repair. I hope I'm not sounding skeptical or selfish, but how do we benefit from fighting Russia over the Ukraine, if the people of Ukraine want to join Russia?

Well, I thought we were trying to get others to pitch in.....and add to what we were giving.