View Poll Results: Is there a war going on against masculinity in the United States?

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Thread: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Not really a war, more like collateral damage from all those politically correct bombing runs on our culture.

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Sorry but I think that's ridiculous. Like I've said before, every group has extremists and I'm sure there are some individuals that use hateful language but they don't represent the majority. Overall the evolution of what defines a man as a man I see as a deeply positive thing and of great benefit to men in general.
    The problem is that feminists have had far too much influence on the definition of what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman. Men have a tendency to want to project a sense of confidence, and women have a tendency to be attracted to men that project such confidence. Although not exclusively, one way in which men tend to demonstrate such confidence is by demonstrating that they have the ability to provide a woman with the things that she needs and desires. Women have a tendency to be attracted to such men. That is why it is not uncommon to see very rich old men, who would otherwise not be able to attract young beautiful women, indeed have such women as partners. Feminists condemn such tendencies as patriarchal and macho, and therefore unacceptable. By doing so they have simply created an environment that encourages the development of various types of neurosis and insecurity because people have to suppress how they naturally feel in order to conform to the feminist notions of how men and women should relate. These feelings of frustration result in an overall sense of unhappiness and pain that encourages the development of destructive tendencies. These destructive tendencies encourage people to want to destroy and tear down others. The symptom of that is that people now look up to people who tear down others. Therefore Simon Cowell of American Idol is so popular. And it helps explain why politicians who promise to destroy the enemy are more popular than those who advocate finding common ground with those with whom we may have differences.

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On purpose, no. But the way that our education system is designed by women for the way that women learn, administrated largely by women, and then taught by women, has resulted in a system that systematically disadvantages boys.
    Amateurish observation at best. Perhaps boys feel a closer bond to a female teacher and feel more incentive to produce for a female than the girls do. Perhaps a nurturing environment works best rather than a more 'male' approach?

    If you consult a chart showing the percentage of women in primary education they seem to be minorities on the 3rd world and/or religiously repressive countries.

    In our country males in grammar school are a super minority, a 2 to 1 minority in High School but 56% in colleges. Perhaps our culture frowns on men in close association with small children? Maybe we embrace our mythological 'school marm' of "Little House on the Prairie" a tad too tight. Perhaps it is all the movies where the smart guy is a bespectacled eye-head, small, skinny and not very assertive???

    If you want to make sweeping generalities then our rural school may help... due to a lower salary the teachers were of three types. First the wives of a local farmer/rancher or businessman- steady pay, summers off, a teacher's Union with healthcare and retirement looks good out here past the Asian Fusion restaurants. Next older teachers on a down and out slide from better paying schools. Last new teachers hopefully on the way up. Both of the last two groups didn't stay long.

    So if you want amateurish stereotypes to go off of, perhaps the males in our society are somewhat disdainful of the profession and it isn't women teaching the way they learn, but teaching the way they instruct. Nurturing, supportive and encouraging... while the history/football coach just says 'rub some dirt on it' if a student has trouble grasping dates...

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The problem is that feminists have had far too much influence on the definition of what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman. Men have a tendency to want to project a sense of confidence, and women have a tendency to be attracted to men that project such confidence. Although not exclusively, one way in which men tend to demonstrate such confidence is by demonstrating that they have the ability to provide a woman with the things that she needs and desires. Women have a tendency to be attracted to such men. That is why it is not uncommon to see very rich old men, who would otherwise not be able to attract young beautiful women, indeed have such women as partners. Feminists condemn such tendencies as patriarchal and macho, and therefore unacceptable. By doing so they have simply created an environment that encourages the development of various types of neurosis and insecurity because people have to suppress how they naturally feel in order to conform to the feminist notions of how men and women should relate. These feelings of frustration result in an overall sense of unhappiness and pain that encourages the development of destructive tendencies. These destructive tendencies encourage people to want to destroy and tear down others. The symptom of that is that people now look up to people who tear down others. Therefore Simon Cowell of American Idol is so popular. And it helps explain why politicians who promise to destroy the enemy are more popular than those who advocate finding common ground with those with whom we may have differences.
    Rather silly use of gender roles. Many men tend to follow a strong, confident leader- it is a HUMAN trait to be attracted to leadership types- not a gender trait. Though it has always made me chuckle that a hard driving female is a ball buster and a hard driving man is confident...

    Rich old men attract far more than women... but you seem intent on making this a gender issue as well. That old rich men can go through a series of trophy wives is more about our male oriented society than 'nature'. Well off women can have pool boys and such, but because a sexual woman is a slut while a sexual man is a stud, she doesn't advertise her boy toy with court side seat dates...

    But the best laugh on all of this is blaming feminists for the HUMAN rather sad trait of loving a good train wreck. been part and parcel of our species since the very beginning. Cruelty is not a recent development. I guess Feminists are also responsible for the 'class wars'?

    Your last line is the best line.... soo out of the strike zone... To say politicians who promise the destruction of an enemy are like feminists and those politicians who seek a common ground are not.... sooooo BushII over heated war talk is feminist and Obama wanting to open a dialogue with Iran is macho???

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Rather silly use of gender roles. Many men tend to follow a strong, confident leader- it is a HUMAN trait to be attracted to leadership types- not a gender trait. Though it has always made me chuckle that a hard driving female is a ball buster and a hard driving man is confident...
    There is nothing silly about what I said. Although it is a human trait in general to be attracted to leadership, that is different from the conjugal attraction that women have for men who project a sense of confidence and can provide the necessities and luxuries they desire. In general, these qualities simply don't rank as high on men's priorities as they do women. In fact they can be negatives for women, and your hard driving female example is evidence of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Rich old men attract far more than women... but you seem intent on making this a gender issue as well.
    We are discussing conjugal relationships so what you are saying is irrelevant, unless of course the man is gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    That old rich men can go through a series of trophy wives is more about our male oriented society than 'nature'.
    I disagree. I know personally I never experienced the desire to have a rich old woman. On the other hand I hear young women talk all the time about how they would like to find a rich old man.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Well off women can have pool boys and such, but because a sexual woman is a slut while a sexual man is a stud, she doesn't advertise her boy toy with court side seat dates...
    Actually I think it's more that there is a difference in the effects of testosterone and estrogen that accounts for that. But that is my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    But the best laugh on all of this is blaming feminists for the HUMAN rather sad trait of loving a good train wreck. been part and parcel of our species since the very beginning. Cruelty is not a recent development.
    I didn't say they are solely responsible. I'm saying they have contributed to a rise in the frustration that leads to such behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Your last line is the best line.... soo out of the strike zone... To say politicians who promise the destruction of an enemy are like feminists and those politicians who seek a common ground are not.... sooooo BushII over heated war talk is feminist and Obama wanting to open a dialogue with Iran is macho???
    You don't understand what was said. Again, what I said was that the efforts of feminists to redefine what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman have contributed to the rise in frustration that leads that have made such persons more attractive to voters.

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?-adam_carolla_paperback_cover-259x400-jpg
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    This is plainly untrue. Effort and integrity don't presuppose positivity, whether assumed in advance or not.
    No it is true. While the qualities of effort and integrity are not absolutely dependent on positivity, positivity creates an environment that is more conducive to the manifestation of effort and integrity. That's how people like Tony Robbins make their money. They try to impart a sense of positivity into the minds of their audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    These are givens. Who suggests otherwise?
    It demonstrates that the lack of a positive environment, in this case the state of hunger, can contribute to a decline in integrity. A person is more likely to steal when he is hungry, which is a manifestation of the lack of integrity.

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No it is true. While the qualities of effort and integrity are not absolutely dependent on positivity, positivity creates an environment that is more conducive to the manifestation of effort and integrity. That's how people like Tony Robbins make their money. They try to impart a sense of positivity into the minds of their audience.

    It demonstrates that the lack of a positive environment, in this case the state of hunger, can contribute to a decline in integrity. A person is more likely to steal when he is hungry, which is a manifestation of the lack of integrity.
    To the contrary, integrity's more notable, one's character having been impugned or questioned, not flattered (where no such motive would exist). Likewise for effort.

    Again, this relates to my original post how, exactly?

  9. #99
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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    There is nothing silly about what I said. Although it is a human trait in general to be attracted to leadership, that is different from the conjugal attraction that women have for men who project a sense of confidence and can provide the necessities and luxuries they desire. In general, these qualities simply don't rank as high on men's priorities as they do women. In fact they can be negatives for women, and your hard driving female example is evidence of this. We are discussing conjugal relationships so what you are saying is irrelevant, unless of course the man is gay. I disagree. I know personally I never experienced the desire to have a rich old woman. On the other hand I hear young women talk all the time about how they would like to find a rich old man. Actually I think it's more that there is a difference in the effects of testosterone and estrogen that accounts for that. But that is my opinion. I didn't say they are solely responsible. I'm saying they have contributed to a rise in the frustration that leads to such behavior. You don't understand what was said. Again, what I said was that the efforts of feminists to redefine what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman have contributed to the rise in frustration that leads that have made such persons more attractive to voters.
    Oh I think it is VERY silly... a very demeaning view of why women marry who they do. No doubt some women want a 'strong, confident' man but a bunch of other women see that can cover up arrogance and bull headed stupidity. Many women might love a romance novel where a super rich, super smart, super confident stud sweeps them off their feet but most practical women want a man who doesn't lead with his penis, or he thinks his opinion counts more than hers, does little things that show he cares, and has TALENT to make HIS PART of the income they BOTH produce. Just seems a silly overly simplistic cartoon world you attempt to draw.

    My wife and I have a saying many other couples have- "I'm the boss... as long as she says so!"

    When I said rich old men attract more than younger women I didn't mean gay men... you seem fixated on the sex part of this. Money and power attract men and women alike- quibble over the percentages of either all you want but this isn't an estrogen thing like you wish to deflect the cultural double standard we have for cougars vs codgers. Girls playing baseball, or football... hell women in the military get a special snide comment or two by 'confident' men...

    I believe that it isn't feminists causing the rise of frustration leading us to embrace a swaggering confident short sighted BushII and it is those 'confident' men who blast Obama for wanting a dialogue with folks we don't agree with. This is a CULTURAL thing where the extremists on BOTH sides get blamed for 'the problem'.

    But for every 'confident' man lavishing luxuries on his woman there are a dozen equally 'confident' men doing hard time upstate...

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    Re: Is There A War On Masculinity Going On In The United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    To the contrary, integrity's more notable, one's character having been impugned or questioned, not flattered (where no such motive would exist). Likewise for effort.
    Although that might be a higher quality of integrity and effort, it is also more likely that such qualities will not manifest under such circumstances. Therefore it is not conducive in most instances.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Again, this relates to my original post how, exactly?
    You said

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    No. Only the self-inflicted war on effort and integrity.

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