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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #1
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    Is Snowden a traitor?

    I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

    I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

    Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

    Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat

    In fact, as others have pointed out, information from the Snowden documents has been published in a manner that seemingly seeks to do as much harm to U.S. alliances across the world as possible. Meanwhile, Snowden seeking refuge in first China and then Russia nearly guarantees that the governments in these countries have gained a treasure trove of valuable information on NSA operations against their countries.

    Stealing classified information to systematically undermine U.S. alliances across the world, while aiding U.S. adversaries, is practically the definition of treason. Snowden couldn’t help but know that his actions would lead to these outcomes. And for that reason it is beyond dispute that Snowden, regardless of whether or not some of his disclosures had any merit, has betrayed the United States and his fellow citizens. Nothing from this week or in the future will change this fact.
    Last edited by Turin; 04-25-14 at 09:33 PM.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    I would also like to add that does not mean I give a full stamp of approval to the NSA and have issues ...yet I think Snowden is a traitor based on the evidence.

    He damaged our relationships with our allies and he aided our enemies and became their propaganda queen and provided them our methods of technology. He betrayed his country.
    Last edited by Turin; 04-25-14 at 09:45 PM.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

    I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

    Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

    Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat
    Totally agree that he must have spilled the beans to the Russians in order to be granted asylum. Yes, he's a total traitor.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I would also like to add that does not mean I give a full stamp of approval to the NSA and have issues ...yet I think Snowden is a traitor based on the evidence.

    He damaged our relationships with our allies and he aided our enemies and became their propaganda queen and provided them our methods of technology. He betrayed his country.
    This retired Navy man says that Snowden is absolutely a traitor. There's Snowden and Bradley Manning - and Snowden's by far the worse of the two. Manning was a kid who didn't really know what he was doing, or the damage the release of a quarter million diplomatic cables would cause - and while he deserves (and must receive as an example to others) the punishment he gets. But Snowden did know, and went first to China, and then to Russia. He is a traitor.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    He is a traitor.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

    I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

    Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

    Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat
    "He has had "a very comfortable life" that included a salary of roughly $200,000, a girlfriend with whom he shared a home in Hawaii, a stable career, and a family he loves. "I'm willing to sacrifice all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building."...

    Having watched the Obama administration prosecute whistleblowers at a historically unprecedented rate, he fully expects the US government to attempt to use all its weight to punish him. "I am not afraid," he said calmly, "because this is the choice I've made."....

    "I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest," he said. "There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn't turn over, because harming people isn't my goal. Transparency is."..........

    He purposely chose, he said, to give the documents to journalists whose judgment he trusted about what should be public and what should remain concealed...............
    Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations | World news | The Guardian

    "....Snowden has been vague about when he decided to leak, but he has been very clear on what compelled him to act. "It was seeing a continuing litany of lies from senior officials to Congress – and therefore the American people – and the realization that Congress . . . wholly supported the lies," he said. "Seeing someone in the position of James Clapper – director of National Intelligence – baldly lying to the public without repercussion is the evidence of a subverted democracy."..........

    But Snowden also understood that giving the documents to WikiLeaks, or simply posting them himself, had drawbacks. "I don't desire to enable the Bradley Manning argument that these were released recklessly and unreviewed," Snowden later said. "I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest. There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn't turn over, because harming people isn't my goal. Transparency is.".................

    The mainstream press, another option, seemed even riskier. Recalling how The New York Times delayed Risen's 2005 warrantless-wiretapping story under pressure from the government, Snowden feared the same happening to him. "When the subject of [one's] reporting is an institution as wildly beyond the control of law as the US Intelligence Community, even the best intentions of the New York Times begin to quaver," he writes me in an e-mail. "You can't stare down a spy agency without being prepared to burn your life to the ground over the smallest grain of truth, because truth is the only thing they are afraid of. Truth means accountability, and accountability terrifies those who have gone beyond what is necessary."............

    Greenwald spent every day with Snowden for the next two weeks, interviewing him in the morning, breaking off to write, going back later in the day, and frequently continuing their conversations online. Snowden would go to bed every night around 10:30 or 11, casually telling the journalists he was going to "hit the hay." While Greenwald barely slept, Snowden greeted them at seven each morning, rested and refreshed. "He was about to become the most wanted man in the world," Greenwald says, "but slept as if he didn't have a care in the world." Both he and Poitras were "infected" by the younger man's idealism and enthusiasm, Greenwald admits, and so were his editors at The Guardian, which published the first story on the leaks on Wednesday, June 5th. That piece, detailing a secret court order issued in April 2013 that compelled Verizon to hand over consumer data to the NSA, was followed, on June 6th, by a second story, exposing the PRISM program, and then a third, on June 7th, explaining how the British GCHQ gained access to PRISM in order to collect user data from U.S. companies. On the 8th, Greenwald and MacAskill published in The Guardian a report about an internal NSA tool, known as "Boundless Informant," which recorded, analyzed and tracked the data collected by the agency – suggesting that National Intelligence Director James Clapper had lied to Congress when he insisted that the NSA did not wittingly keep track of the communications of millions of American citizens............."

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...#ixzz2zxCGzFjq

    The statements quoted in the original post from the Diplomat are false. Snowden was not reckless about the type of documents he released and who he released them to. He released info detailing the privacy and other policy impacts of the government programs and exposed lies made to the public and congress. The people of the USA did not provide informed consent to losing their rights. He meets all the qualification for being a legitimate whistleblower.

    More info:
    What Edward Snowden Leaked Was Nothing Compared to What He Didn

    https://www.aclu.org/nsa-documents-search

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Questions for those who think he was a traitor:

    Are government employees and contractors ethically bound to protect government lies and lawbreaking?

    Are government employees ethically bound to protect government programs that were not approved through a legitimate democratic process?

    Could he have exposed the lawbreaking and lies any other way? If so, how?

    International law made through treaties ratified by the USA says that obeying an illegal order is not legal. Why doesn't that apply to this case?

    Who is an example of a more legitimate whistleblower revealing secret government programs?

    How can it be a legitimate (representational) democracy if we have virtually no privacy and the government lies and withholds facts about major policy matters?

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    I have seen no proof that Snowden is a traitor. We are still feeling the impact of his disclosures to our benefit, I hope. I do not think NSA spying on all of us is OK. It is illegal and should be stopped. Whistleblowers get prosecuted. The guilty are not prosecuted. I don't believe Snowden had any choice and his path to Russia was forced by outside actions. He was heading to Ecuador.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    To me the question is irrelevant. He is a criminal, and should be treated as such. He, based on what we know(and as always this is somewhat subject to revision if new facts come in), broke some very specific laws and should be prosecuted for such if we can ever get him in our custody. Whether you want to call him a traitor or not does not really matter, at least to me, but our laws do matter.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Questions for those who think he was a traitor:

    Are government employees and contractors ethically bound to protect government lies and lawbreaking?

    Are government employees ethically bound to protect government programs that were not approved through a legitimate democratic process?

    Could he have exposed the lawbreaking and lies any other way? If so, how?

    International law made through treaties ratified by the USA says that obeying an illegal order is not legal. Why doesn't that apply to this case?

    Who is an example of a more legitimate whistleblower revealing secret government programs?

    How can it be a legitimate (representational) democracy if we have virtually no privacy and the government lies and withholds facts about major policy matters?
    Resign and report the basics here, accepting the likely consequences. There was no need to flee to a foreign nation and most likely share US intelligence information/methods with those foreign nations in exchange for not being returned to stand trial.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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