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Is Snowden a traitor?

Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

  • Total voters
    81
Traitor or not, I can only hope that were I in his position, I would have the courage to stick to my principles.
 
Wiggen said:
No, what is sad is that there are people who hate their own country so much that they consider a man who gave critical military secrets to one of the most repressive regimes in the world - and a regime that still has thousands of nuclear weapons targeted at this country a hero. That's what's sad.
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The foundation of the nation that we love is the constitution and our freedom, not the bureaucrats, politicians, generals, contractors and vendors who run our surveillance and security establishment.

There is no evidence he gave anything to the Russians.
 
Robbie Loucks said:
It's one thing to release domestic information to prove a point. It's another to release our overseas intel and put many Americans in danger. He's a traitor. I wouldn't have a problem with him as long as he only released domestic stuff.
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What Americans were put in danger? Can you list them?
 
Wiggen said:
...The US Government is a corrupt organization? If you feel that way, then move. Russia sounds like just your cup of tea.
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I support Snowden because I don't want our nation to become more like Russia at its worst when everyone was spyed on and all dissent was punished as treason. That is where we have been heading since 9/11.
 
The idea that Snowden is to be lauded as a hero for exposing a twelve year old government program is itself a lack of logic. There is little doubt terrorists and foreign governments are well-aware, as all Americans should be, that for twelve years the intelligence services monitor communications, but it does not excuse the blatant criminality of stealing and handing off classified information.

The fact he now jokes on talk shows with Putin about spying and was in contact with Russia before he left the US?!

Get a grip people. He harmed and did not help anyone in our country or give us any new contextual data. Regardless of how one feels about the NSA ... Snowden is a cowardly traitor.
 
Hard Truth said:
I support Snowden because I don't want our nation to become more like Russia at its worst when everyone was spyed on and all dissent was punished as treason. That is where we have been heading since 9/11.
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Snowden was just supporting Putin and playing propaganda boy. You cannot separate your opinion of the NSA v. a traitor that told us nothing new and harmed our country and empowers Russia.
 
"The ACLU and others have long suspected that the National Security Agency has gone far beyond its mandate of gathering information for counterterrorism and foreign intelligence purposes, implementing a massive spying system to conduct bulk surveillance of hundreds of millions of innocent Americans. Those suspicions were confirmed when, on June 5, 2013, The Guardian released the first in a series of documents provided by Edward Snowden detailing the NSA's unlawful spying activities. All of the documents released since that day -- both by the media and the government -- are housed in this database. Together, they have triggered a remarkable and long-overdue public debate about the legality and propriety of the government's surveillance practices."
See the database at https://www.aclu.org/nsa-documents-search

If the claim that the release of these documents caused harm to citizens of the USA is true, these documents should contain the evidence. Snowden haters are encouraged to provide links to the specific evidence supporting that accusation.
 
Hard Truth said:
So what? The question isn't whether he broke any laws, the question is whether he had a sufficiently good reason to do it.
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That may be the issue to you, but it isn't to me. If we let people get away with breaking laws because they feel they have a good reason, that is nothing more than anarchy.
 
Hard Truth said:
I support Snowden because I don't want our nation to become more like Russia at its worst when everyone was spyed on and all dissent was punished as treason. That is where we have been heading since 9/11.
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Yet you support a traitor who fled with his secrets to the country you don't want us to become? Something isn't computing here. I can only assume that those who support this dirtbag don't give a damn how many lives his treason is likely to cause. I suppose it's because they know it won't be their life. It'll be some kid getting blown to bits by an IED.
 
Hard Truth said:
"The ACLU and others have long suspected that the National Security Agency has gone far beyond its mandate of gathering information for counterterrorism and foreign intelligence purposes, implementing a massive spying system to conduct bulk surveillance of hundreds of millions of innocent Americans. Those suspicions were confirmed when, on June 5, 2013, The Guardian released the first in a series of documents provided by Edward Snowden detailing the NSA's unlawful spying activities. All of the documents released since that day -- both by the media and the government -- are housed in this database. Together, they have triggered a remarkable and long-overdue public debate about the legality and propriety of the government's surveillance practices."
See the database at https://www.aclu.org/nsa-documents-search

If the claim that the release of these documents caused harm to citizens of the USA is true, these documents should contain the evidence. Snowden haters are encouraged to provide links to the specific evidence supporting that accusation.
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Well, anything that the Guardian (Pravda West) or the ACLU claims must be the truth. The documents that will cause harm to Americans are currently in the possession of the KGB, where they will undoubtedly make good use of them. You don't honestly think the KGB would give any of those to the ACLU or the Guardian, do you? If you do, your naivete is at a level beyond my understanding.

Here's one of many links:

Rep. Mike Rogers: Snowden Put Military 'At Risk'

17 million documents. Do you suppose the Guardian got them all?:lamo

Of course the ACLU denies the assertion. Given a choice between relying on the ACLU or the Armed Forces of the United States for my protection, I'll take the latter.
 
Wiggen said:
Yet you support a traitor who fled with his secrets to the country you don't want us to become? Something isn't computing here. I can only assume that those who support this dirtbag don't give a damn how many lives his treason is likely to cause. I suppose it's because they know it won't be their life. It'll be some kid getting blown to bits by an IED.
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everything about you is emotional, and your attack on other people is your usual, its clear you are more concerned with secrets government has, then you are if the constitution has been violated by the very same government.

i am waiting for your nazi attack....:2razz:
 
Redress said:
That may be the issue to you, but it isn't to me. If we let people get away with breaking laws because they feel they have a good reason, that is nothing more than anarchy.
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Even in the context of whistle-blowing - of exposing injustices committed by one's own government? Journalism should have a special protection which exists outside normal realms. Otherwise, all you have is a propaganda machine.
 
Wiggen said:
Yet you support a traitor who fled with his secrets to the country you don't want us to become? Something isn't computing here. I can only assume that those who support this dirtbag don't give a damn how many lives his treason is likely to cause. I suppose it's because they know it won't be their life. It'll be some kid getting blown to bits by an IED.
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I support journalist integrity and the ability of journalists to expose injustices without being imprisoned for life.
 
Redress said:
That may be the issue to you, but it isn't to me. If we let people get away with breaking laws because they feel they have a good reason, that is nothing more than anarchy.
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If people blindly follow the government, that is nothing more than fascism.

Hard Truth said:
Condemning Snowden requires holding these beliefs:

  • Allowing our government to obtain and use the ability to spy on virtually anyone, anywhere at anytime benefits us citizens.
  • We can trust the government to use their top secret programs only for our protection.
  • We can trust the government to harm other people only when there is a known threat to our safety and there is no viable alternative.
  • The interests of the politicians, bureaucrats, military personnel, contractors and vendors that control our intelligence and security apparatus are exactly the same as the public's interests.
  • The USA should have the ability to control the political decisions made by every other nation.
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^ People do trust in that. Naive.
 
Redress said:
That may be the issue to you, but it isn't to me. If we let people get away with breaking laws because they feel they have a good reason, that is nothing more than anarchy.
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Exposing government corruption on a global level trumps any man made law.
 
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jamesrage said:
I notice you did not answer my question that you quoted.

"What about those wiping their ass with the Constitution? Aren't they the traitorous douchbags?"
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:shrug: if an elected official is deliberately wrecking the Constitution, then absolutely are douchebags. That doesn't make anyone who fights them a hero, anymore than Stalin because a Freedom Fighter because he fought Hitler.

Now you answer. If Snowden is such a hero, why would he release information that had nothing to do with the U.S. metadata program, but did have to do with our ability to track our enemies, putting our troops - your brothers - at risk? How many will die that didn't have to, thanks to your "hero"? Three? One? Fifteen? More? Less?

Spies are not my brothers.
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Actually many of them are - the DOD owns most of our intelligence assets. However, the soldiers on the ground who no longer have the ability to be forewarned of impending Taliban attack are your brothers, and they are at greater risk now that your "hero" has left them exposed.

So you answer the question. Why would such a hero who only cared about American civil liberties expose how the NSA collects on Iran, on the Taliban, on North Korea?

Hint. He wouldn't. Because he's not a hero who only cares about American civil liberties. You are confusing the opposition you feel to the metadata program as demanding an equal amount of support for Snowden.
 
Dion said:
Snowden was just supporting Putin and playing propaganda boy. You cannot separate your opinion of the NSA v. a traitor that told us nothing new and harmed our country and empowers Russia.
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Bingo. It's not a coincidence that Snowden's revelations are regularly timed to degrade US - EU relations right before Putin makes a play.
 
Hard Truth said:
Where is the harm? Where is the evidence that he released anything that wasn't evidence of wrong doing?
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Is it wrongdoing to collect against China?

How about collecting against Al Qaida?

How about having CIA stations in Latin America?

How about collecting on the porn habits of Muslim extremists in order to discredit them and lessen their ability to lead Jihad?

"I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest. There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn't turn over, because harming people isn't my goal. Transparency is."
Snowden
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:doh Yeah. And communists claimed to be all about Human Rights.

Unfortunately, Snowden is lying.
 
I usually don't use the term, but it's certainly more appropriate than the pop-culture faux hero status he's granted by most.
 
Dion said:
I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?
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The author lives in cuckoo-land. . .

The reason why I believed from the beginning that Snowden was a traitor was not because of the information he had been leaking but the manner in which he had done it. In my view, a true whistleblower would have first pursued legal avenues for reining in the NSA ? ? ! :lamo :roll:

Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat
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grip said:
Well, I was in the middle, thanks for helping me move towards the defense of his actions against an arrogant and oppressive government agency. They broke Constitutional law when they spied on everyone without authorization, and any reporting of it seems patriotic now. Again, appreciate your help in deciding my defense was misguided of an erroneous espionage law. I guess that was your goal?
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:roll: Dude. Whether or not they broke the Constitution (they didn't, as described in the Supreme Court Case United States v Graham) has absolutely zero impact on whether or not Snowden is a traitor for releasing all that he has. Opposition to the Metadata program does not require support of a guy who happens to release it along with releasing a whole bunch of other stuff as well.

Spied on everyone without authorization? Firstly, the metadata program didn't cover the communications of all U.S. citizens, secondly, it didn't collect content or even individually identifying information, and thirdly, it was authorized by all three branches of government and both political parties, not once, but repeatedly. There is literally no greater level of authorization that a collection program can receive.


Do you intend to defend Snowden putting our troops in Afghanistan in harms way by releasing the methods by which we collect against the Taliban?

Do you intend to defend Snowden putting our national security at risk by releasing how we conduct cyber network operations against China?

Do you intend to defend Snowden releasing how we collect against North Korea? How about Russia? Hey, has Russia done anything lately that really, really, surprised our executive branch? Gosh, if so, you don't think that our sudden inability to collect against them has anything to do with that surprise, a lack of situational awareness leading to inept policy decisions, do you?


You want to argue against the metadata program, I get that. I'm sympathetic to the argument (simply because something might be Constitutional does not make it right). But that's a separate question from whether or not Snowden is a traitor. His actions define that, not whether or not you oppose one of the many collection programs that he's exposed.
 
X Factor said:
Totally agree that he must have spilled the beans to the Russians
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Yes, I'm sure he explained to the Russians that there are Americans clueless enough to believe that the FSB wasn't already aware of the info that Snowden leaked.

Then again, that likely didn't surprise the FSB either.
 
solletica said:
The author lives in cuckoo-land. . .
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The author is correct. Snowden had multiple avenues available to him for whistleblowing that would have avoided allowed him to whistleblow on the metadata program without effecting causing harm to the national security of the United States and he chose to ignore all of them, indicating that that is not a concern of his.
 
solletica said:
Yes, I'm sure he explained to the Russians that there are Americans clueless enough to believe that the FSB wasn't already aware of the info that Snowden leaked.
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SIGINT is among the most closely held secrets of any nation. The Russians are good. We are better. And Snowden took four laptops with every method and program and technique the NSA used that he could cram on them to Russia. Yes. The FSB did not have what Snowden gave them until he did so. Just as important as what they now know we can do is what they now know that we can't. We are now at a disadvantage against every hostile state or actor with a significant cyber ability out there, because all of the tools and techniques that we spent decades building are now useless, whereas their's are still functioning.

In the cyber world, once something is publicly known, it's useless. What snowden did to our cyber capability is the equivalent of taking out the firing pin of every single one of our military's rifles prior to them having to fight a war. Even if the opposition has less or poorer quality arms, at least they work.
 
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