View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #261
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Joe SixPack is we the people, but so are the bureaucrats, and those bureaucrats have more complete information and are able to actually work together to make rational decisions.
    True, but bureaucrats, a small handful of selected politicians*, generals, contractors and vendors that are making these policy decisions have their own interests that may not be compatible with the public interest. Many of them have a financial incentive to maintain endless war.

  2. #262
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Can we assume that you would have no problem with China, or any other government, doing drone strikes in the USA against legal residents as long as that foreign government tells us that the people they plan to kill are terrorists? If not, what is the principal that makes it OK for us, but not for others?
    Really? You're equating China with the United States now? Look, I know there's a real hatred for the United States on both the Far Left and the Far Right, but that's ridiculous. Let me explain the principle to you. The principle is that these people are part of an organization that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans and even more citizens of other countries. If we sheltered people in our country who were devoting their lives to killing as many Chinese people as possible, and we not only sheltered them but supported them, then yes - China would have every right to do whatever was necessary to protect their own citizens if we refused to do so.

    Seriously though, you've got to stop this moral equivalence nonsense between the United States and gangster terrorists. It doesn't exist.
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  3. #263
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    True, but bureaucrats, a small handful of selected politicians*, generals, contractors and vendors that are making these policy decisions have their own interests that may not be compatible with the public interest. Many of them have a financial incentive to maintain endless war.
    Those bureaucrats are selected by we the people. Joe SixPack is chosen by those bureaucrats to have access to classified information. Your premise is kinda full of holes.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #264
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Those bureaucrats are selected by we the people. Joe SixPack is chosen by those bureaucrats to have access to classified information. Your premise is kinda full of holes.
    Condemning Snowden requires holding these beliefs:

    Allowing our government to obtain and use the ability to spy on virtually anyone, anywhere at anytime benefits us citizens.
    We can trust the government to use their top secret programs only for our protection.
    We can trust the government to harm other people only when there is a known threat to our safety and there is no viable alternative.
    The interests of the politicians, bureaucrats, military personnel, contractors and vendors that control our intelligence and security apparatus are exactly the same as the public's interests.

    The USA should have the ability to control the political decisions made by every other nation.

  5. #265
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    I don't accept the premise if the question. Patriotism is the religion of the state. It is a mythology that serves to obscure class conflict. Snowden has exposed the bloated, and dangerously out of control, American national security state. That's a good thing.
    Economic Left/Right: -7.25, Authoritarian/Libertarian:-7.13
    All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. -Noam Chomsky

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Condemning Snowden requires holding these beliefs:

    Allowing our government to obtain and use the ability to spy on virtually anyone, anywhere at anytime benefits us citizens.
    We can trust the government to use their top secret programs only for our protection.
    We can trust the government to harm other people only when there is a known threat to our safety and there is no viable alternative.
    The interests of the politicians, bureaucrats, military personnel, contractors and vendors that control our intelligence and security apparatus are exactly the same as the public's interests.

    The USA should have the ability to control the political decisions made by every other nation.
    No, it does not require holding those beliefs to condemn Snowden.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #267
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Condemning Snowden requires holding these beliefs:

    Allowing our government to obtain and use the ability to spy on virtually anyone, anywhere at anytime benefits us citizens.
    We can trust the government to use their top secret programs only for our protection.
    We can trust the government to harm other people only when there is a known threat to our safety and there is no viable alternative.
    The interests of the politicians, bureaucrats, military personnel, contractors and vendors that control our intelligence and security apparatus are exactly the same as the public's interests.

    The USA should have the ability to control the political decisions made by every other nation.
    Interesting that you don't trust the U.S. government to use top secret programs but you do trust the Russians with our top secret programs. Speaks volumes about you and your political philosophy.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Interesting that you don't trust the U.S. government to use top secret programs but you do trust the Russians with our top secret programs. Speaks volumes about you and your political philosophy.
    I have seen no evidence that Snowden gave the Russians any information.

  9. #269
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    We've already discussed that. Let me try one more time. Snowden fled to Russia with every single military secret known to the NSA. The guy who welcomed him with open arms is a former KGB officer named Vladamir Putin. The KGB, when not arresting, torturing, and imprisoning their own citizens, was the primary Soviet instrument for gathering intelligence about the United States. You are either the most naïve individual on the planet, or you simply don't care.

    Again, your refusal to recognize this simple 2 + 2 = 4 equation speaks volumes about your political philosophy.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
    Decca Records
    London, 1962

  10. #270
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    True, but bureaucrats, a small handful of selected politicians*, generals, contractors and vendors that are making these policy decisions have their own interests that may not be compatible with the public interest. Many of them have a financial incentive to maintain endless war.
    After the Pentagon was audited, and it was discovered that over two trillion dollars had been "lost," September 11. Terror is a synonym for money.





    Special Report: The Pentagon's doctored ledgers conceal epic waste | Reuters

    Linda Woodford spent the last 15 years of her career inserting phony numbers in the U.S. Department of Defense's accounts.

    Every month until she retired in 2011, she says, the day came when the Navy would start dumping numbers on the Cleveland, Ohio, office of the Defense Finance and Accounting Service, the Pentagon's main accounting agency. Using the data they received, Woodford and her fellow DFAS accountants there set about preparing monthly reports to square the Navy's books with the U.S. Treasury's - a balancing-the-checkbook maneuver required of all the military services and other Pentagon agencies.

    t the DFAS offices that handle accounting for the Army, Navy, Air Force and other defense agencies, fudging the accounts with false entries is standard operating procedure, Reuters has found. And plugging isn't confined to DFAS (pronounced DEE-fass). Former military service officials say record-keeping at the operational level throughout the services is rife with made-up numbers to cover lost or missing information.

    A review of multiple reports from oversight agencies in recent years shows that the Pentagon also has systematically ignored warnings about its accounting practices. "These types of adjustments, made without supporting documentation … can mask much larger problems in the original accounting data," the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, said in a December 2011 report.

    Plugs also are symptomatic of one very large problem: the Pentagon's chronic failure to keep track of its money - how much it has, how much it pays out and how much is wasted or stolen.
    The section of this report entitled ""AMALGAM OF FIEFDOMS" is especially interesting. Educate yourselves, people.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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