View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

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  • yes

    45 45.92%
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    53 54.08%
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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #251
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    36 out of 67 is not much of a most.
    And we have no idea how many of them are coming from Putin-sympathizers.
    We do know the Amash/Paul coalition is all over the internet .
    I haven't seen a single defense of Putin in any thread on this forum. I also haven't seen any evidence that Snowden gave Putin or the Chinese any information that wasn't previously made public, just lots of speculation.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 04-28-14 at 02:08 PM.

  2. #252
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Right On! While we're at it, I think we should force U.S. troops to hold a trial with a jury of native Afghani's and convict each individual Taliban before they shoot back during firefights. It's their right, after all.
    Shooting back at people on a battlefield is legitimate and legal per international law. Assassinations away from the battlefield are not. I don't have a problem with a handful of assassinations under very limited circumstances such as a strong evidence of an imminent threat and impossibility of capture without excessive collateral damage. Drones have made assassinations too easy and they are being used excessively. The blowback will probably be greater than any advantage.

  3. #253
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Spying and large scale data mining is not only legitimate in the international areana. It would be irresponsible to neglect it.
    It shouldn't target individuals or groups without reasonable suspicion.

  4. #254
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    I challenge those who think that collecting metadata is harmless to post their phone bills online.

  5. #255
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    People on the left don't support having a secret government that makes major foreign policy decisions without the consent of our legislators. People on the left support the Bill of Rights, including the right to be free from search and seizure without a warrant or probable cause. People on the left believe in respecting the basic human rights of everyone in the world, not just the residents of the USA. People on the left don't support war and violent covert action for the purpose of increasing the profits of mega-corporations. Informed people on the left are well aware of CointelPro and the Hoover-era's FBI spying on people and sabotaging groups because of their political views (which happened under both Democrats and Republicans). Informed people on the left are aware that J.E. Hoover amassed a huge amount of power and influence by blackmailing and threatening other officials. Informed people on the left are aware of the thousands of people murdered by death quads and military dictatorships as a direct result of the USA's covert actions. Informed people on the left know that many of our current problems of oppressive governments, war and terrorism are blowback from covert operations to kill and overthrow democratically elected leaders and governments.
    Thanks for the sermon, bishop.

  6. #256
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I have seen no evidence that he gave any information to the Russia, China or any other government. I haven't heard of any information being released that will make it more likely that some "kid will get blown to bits by an IED." That was already happening before Manning or Snowden. Snowden did a lot of good by allowing the people of the USA, for the first time in a long time, to be informed and involved in the policy discussions regarding how much we are willing to sacrifice our freedom and privacy for safety.
    Who would you expect to give you the information? The Russians? Snowden?

    The simple fact is that he fled to Russia with every military secret possessed by the NSA. And you don't think the Russians now have that? How incredibly nave of you. The simple truth is that you Snowden worshippers wouldn't believe the evidence if it was presented to you on a silver platter. To you, Snowden is some kind of hero that can do no wrong. You should be ashamed of yourselves for the contempt you show for the security of the United States.
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  7. #257
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Shooting back at people on a battlefield is legitimate and legal per international law. Assassinations away from the battlefield are not. I don't have a problem with a handful of assassinations under very limited circumstances such as a strong evidence of an imminent threat and impossibility of capture without excessive collateral damage. Drones have made assassinations too easy and they are being used excessively. The blowback will probably be greater than any advantage.
    I think we should do away with drone attacks, and you and your like minded friends should volunteer to go into western Pakistan or Yemen and perform citizen's arrests on these terrorists and traitors.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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  8. #258
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Joe Sixpack is We the People. I trust the people, when sufficiently informed, more than bureaucrats, a small handful of selected politicians*, generals, contractors and vendors to make major policy decisions about whether we are entitled to privacy, whether we should respect the autonomy or privacy of the people of other nations, whether we should engage in a cyber sabotage war with other nations, and whether we should be allowed to kill anyone, anywhere without due process.

    *like Sen Feinstein who had no problem with spying on us until the spies turned on her own staff
    Joe SixPack is we the people, but so are the bureaucrats, and those bureaucrats have more complete information and are able to actually work together to make rational decisions.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #259
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    For some reason today, my attitude is to listen to someone that is defending a person that I hate with a passion.
    My normal tack is to look at the politics involved, where the defenders are TEA/Libertarians and Liberal DEMs,
    an aforementioned coalition I call the Amash/Paul anti-NSA coalition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I haven't seen a single defense of Putin in any thread on this forum.
    I also haven't seen any evidence that Snowden gave Putin or the Chinese any information that wasn't previously made public, just lots of speculation.
    It's obvious the secret information gathering is out-of-control.
    I don't know the specifics of whether this all started with President Truman and the invention of the CIA.
    I am intrigued with MJ-12 and how much we really don't know.

    I will continue to believe the worst of this Snowden for running to Putin and whatever secrets he took with him .
    Chemists Have Solutions .

  10. #260
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    I think we should do away with drone attacks, and you and your like minded friends should volunteer to go into western Pakistan or Yemen and perform citizen's arrests on these terrorists and traitors.
    Can we assume that you would have no problem with China, or any other government, doing drone strikes in the USA against legal residents as long as that foreign government tells us that the people they plan to kill are terrorists? If not, what is the principal that makes it OK for us, but not for others?

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