View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #241
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    People in the USA are not the only ones who have human rights. Many of us consider it unethical to spy on anyone, even people who aren't USA citizens, without reasonable suspicion and due process.
    If you don't like spy agencies, that's one thing. But that's really, really naive.
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him". Nuremberg Principals

    "This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".

    Previous to the time of the Nuremberg Trials, this excuse was known in common parlance as "Superior Orders". After the prominent, high profile event of the Nuremberg Trials, that excuse is now referred to by many as "Nuremberg Defense". In recent times, a third term, "lawful orders" has become common parlance for some people. All three terms are in use today, and they all have slightly different nuances of meaning, depending on the context in which they are used.

    Nuremberg Principle IV is legally supported by the jurisprudence found in certain articles in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which deal indirectly with conscientious objection. It is also supported by the principles found in paragraph 171 of the Handbook on Procedures and Criteria for Determining Refugee Status which was issued by the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Those principles deal with the conditions under which conscientious objectors can apply for refugee status in another country if they face persecution in their own country for refusing to participate in an illegal war."
    Wikipedia
    Wait a minute. Snowden didn't refuse to participate - he volunteered to participate. Had he walked in and said "I quit", no one would have done anything to stop him other than cease paying him.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    People in the USA are not the only ones who have human rights. Many of us consider it unethical to spy on anyone, even people who aren't USA citizens, without reasonable suspicion and due process.
    Right On! While we're at it, I think we should force U.S. troops to hold a trial with a jury of native Afghani's and convict each individual Taliban before they shoot back during firefights. It's their right, after all.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Why not just everyone be nice to everyone else? That would solve it all, let's just do that.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  5. #245
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    It doesn't matter if he released the info here or in another country. Once it's known here, the world knows. No, I don't think he's a traitor.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

  6. #246
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I would also like to add that does not mean I give a full stamp of approval to the NSA and have issues ...yet I think Snowden is a traitor based on the evidence.

    He damaged our relationships with our allies and he aided our enemies and became their propaganda queen and provided them our methods of technology. He betrayed his country.
    What you said sums it up nicely for me.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Yet you support a traitor who fled with his secrets to the country you don't want us to become? Something isn't computing here. I can only assume that those who support this dirtbag don't give a damn how many lives his treason is likely to cause. I suppose it's because they know it won't be their life. It'll be some kid getting blown to bits by an IED.
    I have seen no evidence that he gave any information to the Russia, China or any other government. I haven't heard of any information being released that will make it more likely that some "kid will get blown to bits by an IED." That was already happening before Manning or Snowden. Snowden did a lot of good by allowing the people of the USA, for the first time in a long time, to be informed and involved in the policy discussions regarding how much we are willing to sacrifice our freedom and privacy for safety.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Snowden was just supporting Putin and playing propaganda boy. You cannot separate your opinion of the NSA v. a traitor that told us nothing new and harmed our country and empowers Russia.
    Proof?

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I disagree. I do not trust Joe SixPack to make informed decisions based on limited knowledge on what should and should not be revealed.
    Joe Sixpack is We the People. I trust the people, when sufficiently informed, more than bureaucrats, a small handful of selected politicians*, generals, contractors and vendors to make major policy decisions about whether we are entitled to privacy, whether we should respect the autonomy or privacy of the people of other nations, whether we should engage in a cyber sabotage war with other nations, and whether we should be allowed to kill anyone, anywhere without due process.

    *like Sen Feinstein who had no problem with spying on us until the spies turned on her own staff

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by pogomutt View Post
    Amazing the response here. The most telling thing that I can see is the general mistrust of the US government shared by so many Americans at this point in history. Well, I'm part of that demographic. But to label Snowden some sort of whistle-blowing patriot? That's idiotic and anyone on the left with a triple digit IQ knows it. Snowden compromised many military secrets. Do you think he cared a wit about how many American lives he compromised with his actions? He's a traitor by every definition we've ever been taught to understand. So now he skulks in a Kremlin broom closet. What a hero. What a man of his convictions. Oh, and who do you suppose he turned all those military secrets over to? You don't think he got his bit of sanctuary for free?
    People on the left don't support having a secret government that makes major foreign policy decisions without the consent of our legislators. People on the left support the Bill of Rights, including the right to be free from search and seizure without a warrant or probable cause. People on the left believe in respecting the basic human rights of everyone in the world, not just the residents of the USA. People on the left don't support war and violent covert action for the purpose of increasing the profits of mega-corporations. Informed people on the left are well aware of CointelPro and the Hoover-era's FBI spying on people and sabotaging groups because of their political views (which happened under both Democrats and Republicans). Informed people on the left are aware that J.E. Hoover amassed a huge amount of power and influence by blackmailing and threatening other officials. Informed people on the left are aware of the thousands of people murdered by death quads and military dictatorships as a direct result of the USA's covert actions. Informed people on the left know that many of our current problems of oppressive governments, war and terrorism are blowback from covert operations to kill and overthrow democratically elected leaders and governments.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 04-28-14 at 02:09 PM.

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