View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #201
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    No one cares whether someone who lives in cuckoo-land sees himself as "correct."
    The author correctly describes Snowden's status based on his actions. It is his actions not the self-justifications that he offers that define whether or not he is a traitor.

    Legal avenue - lifetime imprisonment
    Illegal avenue - success
    Ah, no. Legal Avenue would have broken no laws, hence, he would have never gone to jail. In fact, it would have been criminal to attempt to do so, and whomsoever attempted to put Snowden in jail would have been liable to end up there himself instead.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    SIGINT is among the most closely held secrets of any nation.
    What cpwill is saying is that the Russians don't know what signal intelligence is or have no comparable capabilities of their own, and if one believes that, I have some cheap wild black sturgeon to sell you

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The Russians are good. We are better.
    Yes, WE the people (i. e. Snowden and his bros) are better.

    The US govt., however, sucks (fortunately), or else it wouldn't have hired someone (i. e. Snowden) who could so easily turn against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    And Snowden took four laptops with every method and program and technique the NSA used that he could cram on them to Russia.
    Right, and the cheap caviar (mentioned above) is waiting for anyone who genuinely believes the FSB was dumb enough not to already know everything on that laptop and have already developed means to circumvent the NSA's spying abilities.

  3. #203
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tralfamadore View Post
    Even in the context of whistle-blowing - of exposing injustices committed by one's own government? Journalism should have a special protection which exists outside normal realms. Otherwise, all you have is a propaganda machine.
    He is not a journalist.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #204
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    If people blindly follow the government, that is nothing more than fascism.
    Um, no, that is not fascism. Why are people so in love with trying to attach negative labels to things they do not like?(Hint: that applies in more than one way to this thread, see if you can make the connection)
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Exposing government corruption on a global level trumps any man made law.
    I disagree. I do not trust Joe SixPack to make informed decisions based on limited knowledge on what should and should not be revealed.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #206
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    What cpwill is saying is that the Russians don't know what signal intelligence is or have no comparable capabilities of their own, and if one believes that, I have some cheap wild black sturgeon to sell you
    Uh, no. What I am saying is that the Russians are very good at signals intelligence, and do indeed have comparable structure, organizations, and capabilities, and that ours are (well, were) simply better. Sort of like, "The Russians do indeed have fighter jets, and the Pak-50 is a good bird. But the F-22 would win in a head-to-head".

    Yes, WE the people (i. e. Snowden and his bros) are better.

    The US govt., however, sucks (fortunately), or else it wouldn't have hired someone (i. e. Snowden) who could so easily turn against it.
    No. We The People do not have much of a cyber network operations capability at all, and are, in fact, extremely vulnerable. The U.S. Government has(had) an excellent offensive capability, and has(had) a moderate defensive capability.

    Right, and the cheap caviar (mentioned above) is waiting for anyone who genuinely believes the FSB was dumb enough not to already know everything on that laptop and have already developed means to circumvent the NSA's spying abilities.
    One does not have to be dumb in order not to know things. For example, our intelligence communities have many very brilliant people (and so do the Russians) who are dedicated to keeping secrets secret. The idea that the FSB must already know all of our most closely held secrets just because, well, just because they are a spy agency is ludicrous. Existence does not mean omniscience.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    if an elected official is deliberately wrecking the Constitution, then absolutely are douchebags. That doesn't make anyone who fights them a hero, anymore than Stalin because a Freedom Fighter because he fought Hitler.
    Stop saying stuff I can agree with. Just stop it. It makes me feel all funny.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #208
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I disagree. I do not trust Joe SixPack to make informed decisions based on limited knowledge on what should and should not be revealed.
    Yeah, but at the same time, he's soveriegn, and it's tyranny not to recognize that government can only legitimately exercise powers with his permission.


    Gosh. If only there were some way for Joe Six Pack to take part in some kind of grand process where he and all the Joe Six Packs were able to devolve their decision making authority onto some representative or group of representatives capable of making decisions at a national level.....
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  9. #209
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The author correctly describes Snowden's status based on his actions. It is his actions not the self-justifications that he offers that define whether or not he is a traitor.
    The definition of a traitor is one who works for the enemy. By that definition, Snowden was only a traitor once, when he worked for the US govt.

    However, he's since redeemed himself by leaving the enemy (the govt.) and joining us, which means he's no longer a traitor.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Ah, no. Legal Avenue would have broken no laws, hence, he would have never gone to jail.
    The US govt. can lock up anyone it wants indefinitely without trial by labeling him/her an "enemy combatant." Laws are irrelevant.

  10. #210
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Stop saying stuff I can agree with. Just stop it. It makes me feel all funny.
    No. YOU are saying stuff I agree with. Please now rant about how Snowden is a hero and the second coming of Thomas Jefferson because you hate the fact that the President personally reads all your emails. I just ate, and it's bothering me.




    For some issues it's left v right. And for some issues, it's common sense v crazy. This is just one of those.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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