View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #191
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I notice you did not answer my question that you quoted.

    "What about those wiping their ass with the Constitution? Aren't they the traitorous douchbags?"
    if an elected official is deliberately wrecking the Constitution, then absolutely are douchebags. That doesn't make anyone who fights them a hero, anymore than Stalin because a Freedom Fighter because he fought Hitler.

    Now you answer. If Snowden is such a hero, why would he release information that had nothing to do with the U.S. metadata program, but did have to do with our ability to track our enemies, putting our troops - your brothers - at risk? How many will die that didn't have to, thanks to your "hero"? Three? One? Fifteen? More? Less?

    Spies are not my brothers.
    Actually many of them are - the DOD owns most of our intelligence assets. However, the soldiers on the ground who no longer have the ability to be forewarned of impending Taliban attack are your brothers, and they are at greater risk now that your "hero" has left them exposed.

    So you answer the question. Why would such a hero who only cared about American civil liberties expose how the NSA collects on Iran, on the Taliban, on North Korea?

    Hint. He wouldn't. Because he's not a hero who only cares about American civil liberties. You are confusing the opposition you feel to the metadata program as demanding an equal amount of support for Snowden.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  2. #192
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Snowden was just supporting Putin and playing propaganda boy. You cannot separate your opinion of the NSA v. a traitor that told us nothing new and harmed our country and empowers Russia.
    Bingo. It's not a coincidence that Snowden's revelations are regularly timed to degrade US - EU relations right before Putin makes a play.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  3. #193
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Where is the harm? Where is the evidence that he released anything that wasn't evidence of wrong doing?
    Is it wrongdoing to collect against China?

    How about collecting against Al Qaida?

    How about having CIA stations in Latin America?

    How about collecting on the porn habits of Muslim extremists in order to discredit them and lessen their ability to lead Jihad?

    "I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest. There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn't turn over, because harming people isn't my goal. Transparency is."
    Snowden
    Yeah. And communists claimed to be all about Human Rights.

    Unfortunately, Snowden is lying.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  4. #194
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    I usually don't use the term, but it's certainly more appropriate than the pop-culture faux hero status he's granted by most.

  5. #195
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

    I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

    Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?
    The author lives in cuckoo-land. . .

    The reason why I believed from the beginning that Snowden was a traitor was not because of the information he had been leaking but the manner in which he had done it. In my view, a true whistleblower would have first pursued legal avenues for reining in the NSA ? ? !

    Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat

  6. #196
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Well, I was in the middle, thanks for helping me move towards the defense of his actions against an arrogant and oppressive government agency. They broke Constitutional law when they spied on everyone without authorization, and any reporting of it seems patriotic now. Again, appreciate your help in deciding my defense was misguided of an erroneous espionage law. I guess that was your goal?
    Dude. Whether or not they broke the Constitution (they didn't, as described in the Supreme Court Case United States v Graham) has absolutely zero impact on whether or not Snowden is a traitor for releasing all that he has. Opposition to the Metadata program does not require support of a guy who happens to release it along with releasing a whole bunch of other stuff as well.

    Spied on everyone without authorization? Firstly, the metadata program didn't cover the communications of all U.S. citizens, secondly, it didn't collect content or even individually identifying information, and thirdly, it was authorized by all three branches of government and both political parties, not once, but repeatedly. There is literally no greater level of authorization that a collection program can receive.


    Do you intend to defend Snowden putting our troops in Afghanistan in harms way by releasing the methods by which we collect against the Taliban?

    Do you intend to defend Snowden putting our national security at risk by releasing how we conduct cyber network operations against China?

    Do you intend to defend Snowden releasing how we collect against North Korea? How about Russia? Hey, has Russia done anything lately that really, really, surprised our executive branch? Gosh, if so, you don't think that our sudden inability to collect against them has anything to do with that surprise, a lack of situational awareness leading to inept policy decisions, do you?


    You want to argue against the metadata program, I get that. I'm sympathetic to the argument (simply because something might be Constitutional does not make it right). But that's a separate question from whether or not Snowden is a traitor. His actions define that, not whether or not you oppose one of the many collection programs that he's exposed.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  7. #197
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Totally agree that he must have spilled the beans to the Russians
    Yes, I'm sure he explained to the Russians that there are Americans clueless enough to believe that the FSB wasn't already aware of the info that Snowden leaked.

    Then again, that likely didn't surprise the FSB either.

  8. #198
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The author lives in cuckoo-land. . .
    The author is correct. Snowden had multiple avenues available to him for whistleblowing that would have avoided allowed him to whistleblow on the metadata program without effecting causing harm to the national security of the United States and he chose to ignore all of them, indicating that that is not a concern of his.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  9. #199
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Yes, I'm sure he explained to the Russians that there are Americans clueless enough to believe that the FSB wasn't already aware of the info that Snowden leaked.
    SIGINT is among the most closely held secrets of any nation. The Russians are good. We are better. And Snowden took four laptops with every method and program and technique the NSA used that he could cram on them to Russia. Yes. The FSB did not have what Snowden gave them until he did so. Just as important as what they now know we can do is what they now know that we can't. We are now at a disadvantage against every hostile state or actor with a significant cyber ability out there, because all of the tools and techniques that we spent decades building are now useless, whereas their's are still functioning.

    In the cyber world, once something is publicly known, it's useless. What snowden did to our cyber capability is the equivalent of taking out the firing pin of every single one of our military's rifles prior to them having to fight a war. Even if the opposition has less or poorer quality arms, at least they work.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  10. #200
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The author is correct.
    No one cares whether someone who lives in cuckoo-land sees himself as "correct."

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Snowden had multiple avenues available to him for whistleblowing
    Indeed. . .

    Legal avenue - lifetime imprisonment
    Illegal avenue - success

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