View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

Voters
98. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes

    45 45.92%
  • no

    53 54.08%
Page 13 of 33 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 322

Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #121
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,901

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So let me get this straight: Any law the government makes should be upheld? If the government made it so that black people couldn't drive cars and you were on the jury for a black guy who drove a car, you would convict him just because it's the law? That's rather cowardly.

    You obviously consider the American people "the enemy" and think the rights of the state trump the rights of the citizenry.

    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies." ~ Ron Paul
    Why do you avoid the actual problematic behind this issue polemics and not listen to what is actually written? It also seems that you refuse to differentiate between the implications of the various crimes committed. It is not the same crime to publish information on legitimate international spy activity and method as that of infringement on citizens' rights domestically. Had he stuck to the latter, the questions would be quite different and the discussion of legitimacy of his actions would be less absurd.

  2. #122
    Educator
    mtm1963's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    05-25-17 @ 03:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,067

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    i voted no although i wish there was an in between option. the american public deserved to know just how extensively they were being spied on by their own government and lets not forget the spying they are doing against our allies in the same way.

    we don't know what snowden has told the chinese or the russians, if anything.
    Go Vols

  3. #123
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,361

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Why do you avoid the actual problematic behind this issue polemics and not listen to what is actually written? It also seems that you refuse to differentiate between the implications of the various crimes committed. It is not the same crime to publish information on legitimate international spy activity and method as that of infringement on citizens' rights domestically. Had he stuck to the latter, the questions would be quite different and the discussion of legitimacy of his actions would be less absurd.
    Actually, people like yourself were calling for his head from day one, so I don't think the situation would've magically changed at all if he had stopped after the first release.

    And by the way, I posed a scenario and asked what you would do. Would you convict the black guy for driving simply because it was the law, or would you use jury nullification because you recognize that the law is unconstitutional and bull****?

  4. #124
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,901

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    ANY politician saying he is guilty mans NOTHING to me...no matter which country they are in.

    And the media, they cannot know what damage he has done...they can only guess...as can you.

    You are saying he has done all this damage, yet you have provided no unbiased, factual evidence of this damage.
    You are making the indictment, it is up to you to prove it - not me to disprove it.

    Innocent until proven guilty.

    Btw - even if you could prove he did damage (which I think is virtually impossible) it would not change my mind in the least...what he did was tremendous for the cause of freedom and justice and liberty. He is a hero.
    So answer the question. What would you consider damage? The fact that the trade negotiations have become more difficult and will most likely be more costly to americans? Or the fact that information from allies is less freely available because they no longer think the USA able to keep it confidential? There are lots of this type of damages and I must admit that I can no really believe anyone interested in international relations could not be aware of this. This is so much the case that I suspect such demands of "proof" are usually made knowing how much work it is to collect the evidence combined with no interest in results that contradict the ingrained belief.

  5. #125
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Where I am now
    Last Seen
    09-11-17 @ 02:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    16,386

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    So answer the question. What would you consider damage? The fact that the trade negotiations have become more difficult and will most likely be more costly to americans? Or the fact that information from allies is less freely available because they no longer think the USA able to keep it confidential? There are lots of this type of damages and I must admit that I can no really believe anyone interested in international relations could not be aware of this. This is so much the case that I suspect such demands of "proof" are usually made knowing how much work it is to collect the evidence combined with no interest in results that contradict the ingrained belief.
    Irrelevant...you made the accusation. It is up to you to provide proof.

    I am not wasting my time with this...when you show links to unbiased, factual proof...I might read it.

    Until then, I see no point in continuing this discussion.

    Good day.

  6. #126
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,901

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Actually, people like yourself were calling for his head from day one, so I don't think the situation would've magically changed at all if he had stopped after the first release.

    And by the way, I posed a scenario and asked what you would do. Would you convict the black guy for driving simply because it was the law, or would you use jury nullification because you recognize that the law is unconstitutional and bull****?
    I would have to check what the first releases were. If they referred only to infringements of citizens rights domestically, I don't see that it would have been treason. You would have to check what the exact information was, however.

    And as to the other question, I would not want to live in a country, where I would get into that position, which is one reason I do not live in a country with capital punishment. In any event, I feel that such a law is not in order and would work on getting it changed. I do that a lot.

  7. #127
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,901

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    ...I might read it.

    y.
    And that is exactly, what I meant, when I distrusted the seriousness of your request. Why put in an effort, if the result doesn't interest you enough to read it. I find that rather shady.

  8. #128
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    56,603

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Not at all. He's an American hero, IMO. I believe history will treat him as such.
    Yeah, him and Pollard and Walker - surely headed for the hero history books all

    Nobody loves a traitor. Snowden probably isn't even liked by the people handling him now in Russia.




    I find it interesting (this is not directed at YS, but is a general comment) the number of people who are unable to disentangle their belief that the NSA metadata must be bad from the idea that therefore anyone who exposes it must be good. It's as if binary black/white, good/evil were the only options available in human conduct.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  9. #129
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    56,603

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Actually, people like yourself were calling for his head from day one, so I don't think the situation would've magically changed at all if he had stopped after the first release.

    And by the way, I posed a scenario and asked what you would do. Would you convict the black guy for driving simply because it was the law, or would you use jury nullification because you recognize that the law is unconstitutional and bull****?
    It is an inapt analogy. The law that says "you are not allowed to divulge secrets such as how we use SIGINT to anticipate and protect our troops from Taliban attacks" is neither unConstitutional nor BS.

    Again, Snowden supporters have yet to explain why - if he was such a hero concerned only with the Constitution - he would release all that information that has nothing whatsoever to do with collection on Americans. It is fully possible to believe that the NSA metadata program was wrong, and that Snowden's actions are nonetheless treasonous - your opposition to a metadata program does not necessitate extending hero status to someone for exposing it.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

  10. #130
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:32 AM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    92,911
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    He is NOT a criminal.

    'criminal (ˈkrɪmɪnəl)
    n
    1. (Law) a person charged with and convicted of crime'


    criminal - definition of criminal by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    He has not been convicted of anything yet (to my knowledge), so he is NOT a criminal.
    Notice the part I underlined and made large...
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

Page 13 of 33 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •