View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Don't be silly. I would never take the word of an interested party. And Paul's statement is about as naive as statements come. You certainly wouldn't want a provincial like that running foreign policy.

    PS: Paul also has a dog in the race and quoting him is like taking the government opinion at face value.
    Fine, when you show me links to unbiased sources that prove conclusively that Snowden actually did actual damage to America, I might view it.
    Until then, all you seem to be going on is the government's word and media hype.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
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  2. #112
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Snowden isn't a criminal, as DA60 pointed out. Being a criminal requires being convicted in a court of law by his peers. (If I were on that jury I wouldn't convict if it meant tying up the jury for a year).

    Second, so you don't oppose whistle blowers you just oppose this specific one? Did you just not deem the information he offered us worthy enough?
    Really now? Someone that confessed to a number of high crimes can safely be considered a criminal. The definition you chose to choose is the second meaning in Webster. Personally I find that someone who commits a crime is a criminal independent of a verdict.

    No, I am indifferent to the person. But treason was not necessary to protect the American people.

    And as for the jury, we must hope that you don't get on that jury. Selective application of the law is one of the worst things a society can have happen.

  3. #113
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    `
    I do not see Snowden as a traitor, but more as a patriot.
    `

  4. #114
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Really now? Someone that confessed to a number of high crimes can safely be considered a criminal. The definition you chose to choose is the second meaning in Webster. Personally I find that someone who commits a crime is a criminal independent of a verdict.

    No, I am indifferent to the person. But treason was not necessary to protect the American people.

    And as for the jury, we must hope that you don't get on that jury. Selective application of the law is one of the worst things a society can have happen.
    So let me get this straight: Any law the government makes should be upheld? If the government made it so that black people couldn't drive cars and you were on the jury for a black guy who drove a car, you would convict him just because it's the law? That's rather cowardly.

    You obviously consider the American people "the enemy" and think the rights of the state trump the rights of the citizenry.

    "Truth is treason in the empire of lies." ~ Ron Paul
    "If I take death into my life, acknowledge it, and face it squarely, I will free myself from the anxiety of death and the pettiness of life - and only then will I be free to become myself." ~ Martin Heidegger

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    No. He's some guy who saw some nasty **** in the US government programs and wanted to expose them for the good of the citizenry.. and ofc, he didn't wanted to end up in Guantanamo or dead or something, so he ran away. Where? Wherever he could, and that happened to be Russia. Now he is in the hands of a very ruthless and quite despotic man and he has no way to get away from him. So he went from the pot into the kettle or whatever that expression is.

    He's not a traitor. he's a good man who wanted to do good but in real life, no good deed goes unpunished. And he was desperate... and he ended up in the wrong place.

  6. #116
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Fine, when you show me links to unbiased sources that prove conclusively that Snowden actually did actual damage to America, I might view it.
    Until then, all you seem to be going on is the government's word and media hype.
    What would you consider proof? If you do international media and listened to the politicians around the world or look at the PEW surveys, you could hardly have missed the damage.

    Just ask yourself why he published the data concerning perfectly legal operations in foreign countries (of which often the populations were uninformed and did not want to know of) and perfectly legitimate spy activities and methods. Had he published only such information as pertained to the breech of the rights of American citizens there would still be crimes involved but hardly as severe. It would not have been treason.

  7. #117
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Is Snowden a traitor?

    Just one of those rarities who takes his bosses' propaganda seriously, surely?

  8. #118
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    This question says more about me than it does about Snowden. I don't think Snowden is a traitor because this government, led by Obama, Reid and recently Bohnier/Pilosi is one that I don't trust. While I didn't like the Bush's foreign agenda, I used to believe that my government would treat me fairly. Now we have a weaponized Federal bureaucracy. Homeland Security, the IRS, the BLM and recently even the Post Office has become armed with military equipment. Posse Cometatus means little when it's possible to get into a fire fight with the Post Office.

    Obama said he was going to bring us change. He's done his best to change us into a banana republic

    I don't think Snowden is a traitor because, while some on Capital Hill say he could have brought his charge to congress for oversight, the government is not a safe haven for whistleblowers.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  9. #119
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    No. He's some guy who saw some nasty **** in the US government programs and wanted to expose them for the good of the citizenry.. and ofc, he didn't wanted to end up in Guantanamo or dead or something, so he ran away. Where? Wherever he could, and that happened to be Russia. Now he is in the hands of a very ruthless and quite despotic man and he has no way to get away from him. So he went from the pot into the kettle or whatever that expression is.

    He's not a traitor. he's a good man who wanted to do good but in real life, no good deed goes unpunished. And he was desperate... and he ended up in the wrong place.
    What blows my mind is the people who say things like: "Look! He ran to China and Russia! He must be a traitor!"

    No **** he ran to those countries, they were the only ones who would take him. He applied to every major European country and they all told him to **** himself because they were swinging from America's nuts.
    "If I take death into my life, acknowledge it, and face it squarely, I will free myself from the anxiety of death and the pettiness of life - and only then will I be free to become myself." ~ Martin Heidegger

  10. #120
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What would you consider proof? If you do international media and listened to the politicians around the world or look at the PEW surveys, you could hardly have missed the damage.

    Just ask yourself why he published the data concerning perfectly legal operations in foreign countries (of which often the populations were uninformed and did not want to know of) and perfectly legitimate spy activities and methods. Had he published only such information as pertained to the breech of the rights of American citizens there would still be crimes involved but hardly as severe. It would not have been treason.
    ANY politician saying he is guilty mans NOTHING to me...no matter which country they are in.

    And the media, they cannot know what damage he has done...they can only guess...as can you.

    You are saying he has done all this damage, yet you have provided no unbiased, factual evidence of this damage.
    You are making the indictment, it is up to you to prove it - not me to disprove it.

    Innocent until proven guilty.

    Btw - even if you could prove he did damage (which I think is virtually impossible) it would not change my mind in the least...what he did was tremendous for the cause of freedom and justice and liberty. He is a hero.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

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