View Poll Results: Read article ... Do you agree he is a traitor or disagree?

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Thread: Is Snowden a traitor?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There are consequences to actions. Just about anything she does now will go through the legal system. That is a direct result of her actions.
    And what we are doing to her is cruel and unusual. Locking someone up in a cage with no human contact also has consequences.
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    You really think Snowden is a hero? He probably thought so of himself. That much is true and lends a certain sympathy to his misbegotten action. But believing in what you do does not constitute a valid excuse for treason.
    well if you go by the founders he did not commit treason.

    treason consist of a condition of war, this can be found by reading the constitutional convention notes on the subject of aug 20 1787

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    What he knows is entirely irrelevant to the Espionage Act. The question is whether he delivered classified information about national defense to some one not entitled to have it, something he fully admits to. You might want ot read up on the law, instead of just claiming everything is unconstitutional.
    what if he knows things which are true and they are unconstitutional....should be forget that, and only focus on federal law.

    since the constitution place restrictions on the federal government, and the 4th being a restriction, but government is listening to us in our communication, it is clear that is unconstitutional.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well if you go by the founders he did not commit treason.

    treason consist of a condition of war, this can be found by reading the constitutional convention notes on the subject of aug 20 1787
    That is not quite true. There need not be war to commit treason. Wherein you are right is, however, that treason is often associated with attempts to overthrow governments or kill monarchs. This action has however caused so much damage to the sovereign's government, that "treason" should apply.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

    I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

    Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

    Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat
    There's another word I was trying to think of other than traitor, but it escapes my thoughts presently. When I think of traitor, I think of a person who in a US Military uniform using his rank or higher position to sell or pass secrets to enemies or nations which aren't friendly to the US.

    The word spy comes to mind, but that's not exactly an accurate description either.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That is not quite true. There need not be war to commit treason. Wherein you are right is, however, that treason is often associated with attempts to overthrow governments or kill monarchs. This action has however caused so much damage to the sovereign's government, that "treason" should apply.
    the constitution spells out treason, and if you read the constitutional convention notes on the clause concerning treason of aug 20 you will see the founders in framing that very clause, talk about America at war with an enemy when they talk of treason.

    why do not people read the founders....since treason is in the constitution.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what if he knows things which are true and they are unconstitutional....should be forget that, and only focus on federal law.

    since the constitution place restrictions on the federal government, and the 4th being a restriction, but government is listening to us in our communication, it is clear that is unconstitutional.
    None of which is relevant to whether be broke the law, or whether that law is constitutional. Nowhere in the Espionage Act does it say you can deliver secrets to those who should not have access if you somehow feel justified to do so.
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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    None of which is relevant to whether be broke the law, or whether that law is constitutional. Nowhere in the Espionage Act does it say you can deliver secrets to those who should not have access if you somehow feel justified to do so.
    I did not say it did.... however you seem to want to focus on federal law, while I am concern more with constitutional law, which is higher law.

    while giving information to a foreign power in not in the interest of the American people, violating constitutional law, is a more serous threat to the American people.

    it would be nice to see snowden able to in court viewed by the public, and state what he knows which he considers unconstitutional, only those things which he would deem within constitution law, would by kept away from the public.

    however I don't want snowden, thrown in jail never to see or hear from him again, with a trial conducted in secret, I want the story, not what the government has to tell us.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the constitution spells out treason, and if you read the constitutional convention notes on the clause concerning treason of aug 20 you will see the founders in framing that very clause, talk about America at war with an enemy when they talk of treason.

    why do not people read the founders....since treason is in the constitution.
    Well, sometimes one needs to read beyond the founders' scripture, as good as that is. This here might interest you:

    "18 U.S. Code 2381 - Treason
    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

    18 U.S. Code 2381 - Treason | LII / Legal Information Institute

    Now you might not like that or want it changed. But it stands and is applicable as of this time.

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    Re: Is Snowden a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I know this may seem old news yet more is being released and a recent conversation with a friend does not view him this way.

    I followed this story lightly and would like to dig more and hear your thoughts.

    Here is an article that sums up my perspective so far. What do you think?

    Yes, Edward Snowden Is a Traitor | The Diplomat
    If your country is doing something constitutionally illegal, and you tell the world about it, it isn't the person who told the world that ruined international relationships, it was the asshat bureaucrats that decided to do what they did in the first place.

    If Bob saw Joe murder someone and Bob reported Joe to the cops, do we blame Bob for ruining Joe's relationships?

    Snowden: American Patriot

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    None of which is relevant to whether be broke the law, or whether that law is constitutional. Nowhere in the Espionage Act does it say you can deliver secrets to those who should not have access if you somehow feel justified to do so.
    So to you it absolutely doesn't matter what the government was doing, whether it be spying on its citizens or killing kids in dark rooms. Anyone who reports something like that to the American public is a traitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    There's another word I was trying to think of other than traitor, but it escapes my thoughts presently. When I think of traitor, I think of a person who in a US Military uniform using his rank or higher position to sell or pass secrets to enemies or nations which aren't friendly to the US.

    The word spy comes to mind, but that's not exactly an accurate description either.
    Considering he informed YOU that YOUR rights are being violated, I think the term you're looking for is national hero.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 04-26-14 at 05:04 AM.

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