Should Trinity Western Have It's Law School Accredited?

Carjosse said:

They were granted that power but they are still not part of the government.

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If they have and execute a power of government then effectively they are a part of government whether this is recognized or not.

Carjosse said:

Well the law society is not the one discriminating against anyone, it is the university.

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Of course they are. They are attempting to apply a different standard against the university than they do against anyone else. So long as the university is turning out students that can pass the Bar exam, there is no reason they shouldn't be accredited. The school's political views have no bearing on the quality of the students they turn out.

This is more liberal idiocy, trying to force people to adopt their social justice standards through terrorism.

votemout said:

They also cant come back and tell people God is real either.

24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

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Nobody is interested in your idiotic book of multiple choice. Come back when you have some objective evidence. :roll:

votemout said:

Cant wait to see the faces of the atheists when they realize there is a judgment day. Actually I will feel sorry for them because once your dead its over no more chances.

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You sure ASSume an awful lot on just where everyone will be. Seems a might prideful for someone looking to pass through some gates... won't the biggest joke be on all the self righteous being turned away as well...

Cephus said:

Of course they are. They are attempting to apply a different standard against the university than they do against anyone else. So long as the university is turning out students that can pass the Bar exam, there is no reason they shouldn't be accredited. The school's political views have no bearing on the quality of the students they turn out. This is more liberal idiocy, trying to force people to adopt their social justice standards through terrorism.

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Except the Institution isn't claiming a political tenet but a religious one. More along the Hobby Lobby 'line' wishing to ignore a law on religious grounds. Canada appears to have gone quite a bit further down the Same Sex road than just a 'liberal' agenda... it appears to be a national one up north.

To use your yardstick NO oversight but can the graduates pass a certain test need be applied to any Educational Facility...

notquiteright said:

Except the Institution isn't claiming a political tenet but a religious one. More along the Hobby Lobby 'line' wishing to ignore a law on religious grounds. Canada appears to have gone quite a bit further down the Same Sex road than just a 'liberal' agenda... it appears to be a national one up north.

To use your yardstick NO oversight but can the graduates pass a certain test need be applied to any Educational Facility...

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But Hobby Lobby isn't being denied a business licence because of those views. Those views have *NOTHING WHATSOEVER* to do with Hobby Lobby's ability to do business. The same is true of Trinity Western. Their ability to produce law students who can pass the bar exam has *NOTHING WHATSOEVER* to do with their views on homosexuality. They might be reprehensible views but they should not stop the school from doing business.

That's the whole thing with liberal politics. It's all revenge based. If someone does something they don't like, they seek to impose penalties on them, even when those penalties have nothing to do with the views, to force them to change their policies. It's like saying the government can take away your driver's licence because they don't like your political views. One has nothing to do with the other.

Cephus said:

But Hobby Lobby isn't being denied a business licence because of those views. Those views have *NOTHING WHATSOEVER* to do with Hobby Lobby's ability to do business. The same is true of Trinity Western. Their ability to produce law students who can pass the bar exam has *NOTHING WHATSOEVER* to do with their views on homosexuality. They might be reprehensible views but they should not stop the school from doing business. That's the whole thing with liberal politics. It's all revenge based. If someone does something they don't like, they seek to impose penalties on them, even when those penalties have nothing to do with the views, to force them to change their policies. It's like saying the government can take away your driver's licence because they don't like your political views. One has nothing to do with the other.

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You seem so bitter about this. Your rhetoric is couched in very emotional terms. Revenge????

Hobby Lobby isn't denying employment to those who use birth control- they just don't want to pay for it... but both are citing a religious exception to the law, THAT is the point.

The Law Society charged with oversight on law schools isn't 'picking on' Trinity Western... ALL law schools are not permitted to deny homosexuals admittance. It will be an interesting legal battle- fitting for a school wishing to defy sec 15 of the Charter.

Your argument about the exclusion of gays having no bearing is flawed- there are many other factors in the accreditation- housing, safety, sanitation, instructor credentials that are subject to rejection...

your argument would be Instructors need not be certified as long as students can pass the bar. Classrooms can be substandard as long as students pass the bar.

It will be very interesting in a nation like Canada which has embraced same sex marriage, faces religious fundamentalism's abhorrence of homosexuality.

notquiteright said:

Hobby Lobby isn't denying employment to those who use birth control- they just don't want to pay for it... but both are citing a religious exception to the law, THAT is the point.

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Yes, that is the point and you can't get it through your head. Nobody is telling Hobby Lobby that they will lose their business license because some people don't like their religious views. Most rational people recognize that there is a difference between religious views and business practices. You unfortunately do not. These Law Societies no not. You are both wrong. You're welcome to dislike their religious views, I would even agree with you, but you can't just take revenge on a school or a company because you don't like their views and deny them things for which they are clearly qualified. Nowhere in the laws of Canada, I would hope, is there a requirement that a law school follow a specific set of beliefs having nothing whatsoever to do with their teaching standards. If there is, your country is idiotic. If you are incapable of separating your moral outrage from your legal practices, there's something seriously wrong going on.

Paleocon said:

But is any reason, aside from the university's conservatism, to deny the accreditation?

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That's reason enough. Sending lawyers into the world with right wing, 'christian' values is the last thing the world needs. Or Canada.

Carjosse said:

This is a Canadian issue but I'm sure that Americans can chime in. Trinity Western University is a private Christian university in B.C., which recently got a law school. A controversy has risen among law societies because Trinity Western has a discriminatory policy against homosexuals saying that same-sex intimacy is prohibited. For context B.C. is not a conservative province and was the second province to legalize same-sex marriage. The Upper Canada Law Society (Ontario) voted this week to refuse accreditation with those opposing the school saying: “I cannot vote to accredit a law school which seeks to control students in their bedrooms.” This is a major setback for the university as it has been refused accreditation by the largest and most influential law society. Nova Scotia voted to recognize it but only if they remove the discriminatory policy. Lawyers and activists in B.C. and Ontario have launched a court challenge and petitions to refuse the university to have a law school to begin with. Trinity Western would also be the only private university with a law school.

I personally do not believe Trinity Western should have a law school to begin with. They are a private university but that changes with law students.

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My suggestion is to not accredit the law school, require them to make it clear to candidates for the law school that they won't be accredited in Canada, and let it work itself out from there. I don't think banning the law school will be required after that.

Cephus said:

Yes, that is the point and you can't get it through your head. Nobody is telling Hobby Lobby that they will lose their business license because some people don't like their religious views. Most rational people recognize that there is a difference between religious views and business practices. You unfortunately do not. These Law Societies no not. You are both wrong. You're welcome to dislike their religious views, I would even agree with you, but you can't just take revenge on a school or a company because you don't like their views and deny them things for which they are clearly qualified. Nowhere in the laws of Canada, I would hope, is there a requirement that a law school follow a specific set of beliefs having nothing whatsoever to do with their teaching standards. If there is, your country is idiotic. If you are incapable of separating your moral outrage from your legal practices, there's something seriously wrong going on.

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You are the one intent on twisting this to suit a CON whine. Western trinity isn't LOSING anything... instead it isn't GAINING something. Western trinity can still run a University, can still hold classes, just can't EXPAND it's area of education into the law.

You twist what Hobby Lobby is doing as well... Hobby lobby is REFUSING to obey a law on religious grounds for a secular business.

NEITHER is being threatened with LOSING their ability to do business. :doh

You keeping using the word 'revenge'- that simply isn't true. A school creating lawyers should obey the law. If the courts decide Trinity can use religious objections to ban homosexuals then so be it (I REALLY have ZERO moral outrage over this, you are the one using emotional words)

Canada isn't the USofA and has gone a few miles further down the road to sexual orientation equality.

You don't use facts but rather a vague, "I would hope...." fact is your attempt to make this sooo specific for a school of law in ONE category denies the very real world fact there are MANY issues a school must address besides homosexuals. As I noted- teacher certification, housing, health and curriculum. And this isn't 'revenge' against one school but a requirement for ALL schools. Try reading a bit on the canadian charter of rights and freedoms.

I have ZERO moral outrage, just figure it isn't for us to pass judgement or deny in Caesar's world. Final judgement, (if there is one) is in HIS hands.

If Trinity Western was cranking out religious leaders/scholars I can see their POV a bit better, but like Hobby Lobby they would like to start running a secular business for a secular profession and that comes under sec15.

Summerwind said:

My suggestion is to not accredit the law school, require them to make it clear to candidates for the law school that they won't be accredited in Canada, and let it work itself out from there. I don't think banning the law school will be required after that.

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Well it is not Canada just a 1/3 of it which just so happens to have most of the law firms.

Carjosse said:

It is not the government accrediting them, it is the law societies which can be considered their own private entities but with the power to decide who can and cannot practice law.

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So they have a government approved monopoly then.

cpgrad08 said:

So they have a government approved monopoly then.

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Wouldn't that defeat the point if they didn't? They are in charge of regulating the practice of law.

Do they meet the academic standards? Then yes, it should be accredited.

notquiteright said:

Kinda like the AMA in a lot of ways, don't you think?

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The AMA does not have any power to accredit medical schools or to license doctors. The AMA is just a peer organization for advocacy and lobbying and group insurance and the such. The analogy doesn't apply at all. State medical boards which are governmental institutions are the ones that do the accreditation and licensing.

I'm not super familiar with Canadian law, but at first glance and with what I know: I see no reason not to accredit the law school.

I believe such attitudes are only conducive to a "trinity" of law.

In the US, our supreme law of the land is more supreme than even Commandments of Religion.