View Poll Results: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

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  • Yes

    35 53.85%
  • No

    7 10.77%
  • I think so

    0 0%
  • I don't think so

    6 9.23%
  • I don't know

    9 13.85%
  • Other

    8 12.31%
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Thread: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by votemout View Post
    He does not owe that money and here is why! Should research and not just parrot the Lame Stream Medias lies! Here is the real complaint filed in court and what it means!!

    The BLM, Cliven Bundy and Harry Reid | Investment Research Dynamics

    I enlisted my attorney colleague. Here’s the short explanation: “The transaction here was trespass. The feds litigated that and could have obtained damages, but didn’t ask for them. Now it’s too late. The fed’s failure to plead correctly will operate as a waiver.”

    My colleague dug up the original complaint, which you can read here: U.S. v. Cliven Bundy

    Here’s his explanation as to why the only right the Government had was to remove the cattle from grazing on the BLM land:

    Now I now believe, having read the complaint, that the BLM doesn’t have—and never had—the right to collect grazing fees, which were voluntary: in exchange for paying fees, cattlemen received a grazing permit. See para. 21.

    When Bundy refused to apply for a permit in 1993, his cattle became trespassing chattels. That means the BLM’s only remedy against Bundy was an action for trespass. The BLM exercised that right by filing a 2-count suit in court, one count for trespass and another for a judicial declaration that Bundy’s cattle are trespassing in violation of law.

    But a trespass action has never—not in 800 years of property jurisprudence—included any remedy that would grant a plaintiff any rights of dominion over the trespasser. There are but two remedies available to a plaintiff complaining of trespass. One is damages, the legal remedy. The other is an injunction, an equitable remedy. The BLM was only awarded the latter; it never even sought damages in its complaint

    There was never any colorable legal justification for selling the cattle. The only cause of action available to the BLM was at all times since 1993 a trespass action, which did not, does not, and cannot transfer title.

    Moreover, the fact that Bundy refused to pay the grazing fees does not mean that he owes back fees. He most certainly does not. Rather, it means that he voluntarily elected to became (via his cattle) a trespasser. The BLM filed suit for exactly this reason.

    Interestingly, the BLM’s complaint does not seek any monetary damages. Thus, not only does Bundy not owe the BLM any money for the unpaid fees, Bundy doesn’t owe any damages to the BLM because the BLM simply failed to ask for any damages.

    In short, the BLM’s act of attempting to sell the cattle, by entering into a $1 million contract for that purpose with a party in Utah, was a willful and wanton criminal act, as there was never any legal avenue that would have granted the BLM that right. The BLM and its lawyers had to have known that they were committing serious felonies.

    What happens from here is anyone’s guess. In the current posture of this case, Bundy must keep his cattle off of federal land (Gold Butte, etc.). But he doesn’t owe the BLM and money and the cattle are still his and always were.

    It is crystal clear once we learn the real facts of the BLM/Bundy dispute that the Government was NOT motivated to go after Bundy on behalf of the Taxpayer for unpaid cattle grazing fees. It also tells us that the only reason the BLM went after Bundy was to remove his cattle from BLM land, something for which I’m sure the average Taxpayer could care less. It stands to reason, therefore, that the sole motivation of the BLM actions against Bundy were taken on behalf of Harry Reid and his political and monetary interests.


    SO you saying he owes any money is a blatant lie!
    Look, I put that in there to explain who he was. If you think its wrong, fine start a thread on it, this thread is not the place.


  2. #32
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    I have an issue also with how "racist" and "racism" have been over applied to the point that the word has lost it's true meaning...

    Here's something I put together a few years back that I post every once in a while:

    Attachment 67165421

    That is not bad, though for my definition I use, I would eliminate C and E.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #33
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That's the best possible scenario?
    Actually confused uninformed fool was the best scenario there.
    Education.

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  4. #34
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Cliven Bundy is the Nevada cattle rancher who is refusing to pay the Federal government grazing fees and owes approximately $1.1 million.

    The possible choices in this poll are:

    Yes
    No
    I think so
    I don't think so
    I don't know.
    Other
    I do not know(and think it is almost impossible to know), nor do I particularly care. It has no real bearing on how I think of him.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #35
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by votemout View Post
    He does not owe that money and here is why! Should research and not just parrot the Lame Stream Medias lies! Here is the real complaint filed in court and what it means!!

    The BLM, Cliven Bundy and Harry Reid | Investment Research Dynamics

    I enlisted my attorney colleague. Here’s the short explanation: “The transaction here was trespass. The feds litigated that and could have obtained damages, but didn’t ask for them. Now it’s too late. The fed’s failure to plead correctly will operate as a waiver.”

    My colleague dug up the original complaint, which you can read here: U.S. v. Cliven Bundy

    Here’s his explanation as to why the only right the Government had was to remove the cattle from grazing on the BLM land:

    Now I now believe, having read the complaint, that the BLM doesn’t have—and never had—the right to collect grazing fees, which were voluntary: in exchange for paying fees, cattlemen received a grazing permit. See para. 21.

    When Bundy refused to apply for a permit in 1993, his cattle became trespassing chattels. That means the BLM’s only remedy against Bundy was an action for trespass. The BLM exercised that right by filing a 2-count suit in court, one count for trespass and another for a judicial declaration that Bundy’s cattle are trespassing in violation of law.

    But a trespass action has never—not in 800 years of property jurisprudence—included any remedy that would grant a plaintiff any rights of dominion over the trespasser. There are but two remedies available to a plaintiff complaining of trespass. One is damages, the legal remedy. The other is an injunction, an equitable remedy. The BLM was only awarded the latter; it never even sought damages in its complaint

    There was never any colorable legal justification for selling the cattle. The only cause of action available to the BLM was at all times since 1993 a trespass action, which did not, does not, and cannot transfer title.

    Moreover, the fact that Bundy refused to pay the grazing fees does not mean that he owes back fees. He most certainly does not. Rather, it means that he voluntarily elected to became (via his cattle) a trespasser. The BLM filed suit for exactly this reason.

    Interestingly, the BLM’s complaint does not seek any monetary damages. Thus, not only does Bundy not owe the BLM any money for the unpaid fees, Bundy doesn’t owe any damages to the BLM because the BLM simply failed to ask for any damages.

    In short, the BLM’s act of attempting to sell the cattle, by entering into a $1 million contract for that purpose with a party in Utah, was a willful and wanton criminal act, as there was never any legal avenue that would have granted the BLM that right. The BLM and its lawyers had to have known that they were committing serious felonies.

    What happens from here is anyone’s guess. In the current posture of this case, Bundy must keep his cattle off of federal land (Gold Butte, etc.). But he doesn’t owe the BLM and money and the cattle are still his and always were.

    It is crystal clear once we learn the real facts of the BLM/Bundy dispute that the Government was NOT motivated to go after Bundy on behalf of the Taxpayer for unpaid cattle grazing fees. It also tells us that the only reason the BLM went after Bundy was to remove his cattle from BLM land, something for which I’m sure the average Taxpayer could care less. It stands to reason, therefore, that the sole motivation of the BLM actions against Bundy were taken on behalf of Harry Reid and his political and monetary interests.


    SO you saying he owes any money is a blatant lie!
    First off, your soruce article has been debunked(see http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...dy-ranch-pers/). That is not the important part, though it does show how factually challenged your source is. The important part is this: in this country, we have a system in place for resolving disputes of this nature. That process yielded a result: Document 35 :: United States of America v. Bundy :: 2:2012cv00804 :: Nevada District Court :: US Federal District Courts Cases :: Justia. Now, you can disagree with a ruling, you can think it is in error, but it is still how things are resolved.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #36
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Thing about racists is they don't think they're racists within their world view.

    My step grandfather who I love dearly is full of **** as well, he'd always talk about the blacks this and blacks that, "can't trust them kaffers" "they don't think us, they're not like us"

    Creme de la Creme is one time I dated a Chinese girl and he said "you shouldn't be mixing with those people".

    He didn't dare say anything after I married with Japanese and had child (think my dad put the fear of god in him).

    The point of all this is also to get people to calm down in the sense that he's an old fart who basically yes, did say something incredibly racist and will be ostracized accordingly BUT who many of us, I dare say most of us, have a family member who believes similar things.

    Having said that most racist old farts don't do the stupid **** that he did with not paying the grazing fees and getting the militias involved etc.

  7. #37
    Almost respectable

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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Thing about racists is they don't think they're racists within their world view.

    My step grandfather who I love dearly is full of **** as well, he'd always talk about the blacks this and blacks that, "can't trust them kaffers" "they don't think us, they're not like us"

    Creme de la Creme is one time I dated a Chinese girl and he said "you shouldn't be mixing with those people".

    He didn't dare say anything after I married with Japanese and had child (think my dad put the fear of god in him).

    The point of all this is also to get people to calm down in the sense that he's an old fart who basically yes, did say something incredibly racist and will be ostracized accordingly BUT who many of us, I dare say most of us, have a family member who believes similar things.

    Having said that most racist old farts don't do the stupid **** that he did with not paying the grazing fees and getting the militias involved etc.
    "Yep, I'm totally a racist."
    -nobody ever

  8. #38
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    from Mr. Bundy

    “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
    sure sounds like a racist to me.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  9. #39
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    I vote "Who cares"?

    I got better things to do with my time then to try and judge people I have never heard, have no interest in hearing, and will never meet.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  10. #40
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    Re: Is Cliven Bundy a Racist?

    Where's the "I don't care" option?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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