View Poll Results: which laws?

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  • abortion laws

    7 18.42%
  • animal cruelty laws

    1 2.63%
  • both

    7 18.42%
  • neither

    4 10.53%
  • all laws

    17 44.74%
  • no laws

    2 5.26%
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Thread: legislating morality

  1. #81
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    Re: legislating morality

    There are nearly universal morals, such as the prohibitions against murder, assault, rape , theft, fraud etc.

    There are also religious/superstitious/cultural morals that are not universal, such as restrictions on working on certain days, rules about when to wear a hat, sexual restrictions, recreational drug use rules, rules about appropriate clothing, taboo words and images, and various religious/superstitious rules, taboos and restrictions.

    Religious/superstitious/cultural morals should not be regulated by government.

    Abortion and animal treatment restrictions are somewhere in between.

  2. #82
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    There are nearly universal morals, such as the prohibitions against murder, assault, rape , theft, fraud etc.
    Not even.
    Those things can be justified in many ways. Which means the prohibitions are subjective standards.


    The only almost universal moral is that most try to do what they view as right. Which means it is all subjective.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  3. #83
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Not even.
    Those things can be justified in many ways. Which means the prohibitions are subjective standards.


    The only almost universal moral is that most try to do what they view as right. Which means it is all subjective.
    I don't think the fact that people carve out exceptions to certain morals means that they are not nearly universal. For example, murder may be excused for self defense, to punish a criminal, to send a message to one's opponents in a war etc, but that doesn't mean that people still don't believe that murder without a good reason is wrong.

  4. #84
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I don't think the fact that people carve out exceptions to certain morals means that they are not nearly universal. For example, murder may be excused for self defense, to punish a criminal, to send a message to one's opponents in a war etc, but that doesn't mean that people still don't believe that murder without a good reason is wrong.
    I would suggest you look at the requirements for the death penalty in some foreign countries to get a better grip on the reality that it is all subjective.
    And then on the other hand, some folks do not even accept justified killings, so no, it is not universal. It is all subjective.

    And then there are the folks who just don't give a damn about another's death.
    There is nothing universal about it.


    Like I said the closet you can come is that most folks do what they believe is right. Which means it is all subjective.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  5. #85
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    You know what I meant.

    You're starting with the premise that morality is a matter of subjective opinion. This is circular reasoning. And the immorality of the Holocaust can be proved:

    1. A thing is good insofar as it is in accordance with its nature (thus a good car is one which works properly, or a good pencil is one which writes well).

    2. Free human acts are matters of morality.

    3. Therefore an act which is against human nature is morally wrong.

    4. It is against man's social nature to intentionally kill others without sufficient cause (since if it were, there would be a contradiction, as if such were right, then by doing this right thing a man would deprive others of their ability to do it to him, which would violate the fundamental equality of humans).

    5. The holocaust was intentional killings committed without sufficient cause.

    Thus it is proved that the holocaust was immoral.
    1 and 2 are opinions. Since 3, 4 and 5 are based on 1 and 2, they're also opinions. Proofs don't rely on opinions.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  6. #86
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hancock View Post
    I believe the Holocaust was immoral, yes, because I believe you shouldn't take something from someone else without their permission. That includes life.
    So death row inmates, we should ask their permission to kill them?

  7. #87
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by pogomutt View Post
    So death row inmates, we should ask their permission to kill them?
    Killing harmless helpless captives is disgusting.

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by pogomutt View Post
    So death row inmates, we should ask their permission to kill them?
    That was more of a generalization. I believe you should defend yourself if necessary. Capital punishment is an entirely different debate.

  9. #89
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hancock View Post
    That was more of a generalization. I believe you should defend yourself if necessary. Capital punishment is an entirely different debate.
    If necessary, the assailant has effectively given permission.

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    Re: legislating morality

    A politician writing a morality law is like a beautician writing an airline regulation law...they both are generally clueless on the subject.

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