View Poll Results: which laws?

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  • abortion laws

    7 18.42%
  • animal cruelty laws

    1 2.63%
  • both

    7 18.42%
  • neither

    4 10.53%
  • all laws

    17 44.74%
  • no laws

    2 5.26%
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Thread: legislating morality

  1. #51
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    How do you dispute it?

    And you didnt demonstrate anything....that's why you need to explain it.
    Man is both a material and a spiritual creature by nature, however to keep this simple I'm not going to argue that fact, as it is unnecessary to prove my other points.

    I did demonstrate it.

  2. #52
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I didn't start with the assumption that the holocaust was wrong. What specific false assumption did I make?

    Not everyone agrees on the shape of the Earth.
    Assumption: The holocaust was intentional killings committed without sufficient cause.

    Everyone with a brain agrees on the shape of the Earth....most people just dont use the exact measurements and geometric term.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #53
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Man is both a material and a spiritual creature by nature, however to keep this simple I'm not going to argue that fact, as it is unnecessary to prove my other points.

    I did demonstrate it.
    Nope. Consciousness is not the same as spiritualism, if that is where you are going with this.

    And you did not demonstrate it....you made a claim....unsupported.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #54
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Assumption: The holocaust was intentional killings committed without sufficient cause.

    Everyone with a brain agrees on the shape of the Earth....most people just dont use the exact measurements and geometric term.
    That they were intentional is historical fact. Sufficient cause is an affirmative claim so the burden is on those who would argue that it wasn't objectively immoral to come up with one.

    Have you heard of the Flat Earth Society?

  5. #55
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Nope. Consciousness is not the same as spiritualism, if that is where you are going with this.

    And you did not demonstrate it....you made a claim....unsupported.
    I'm not going to argue about the soul, as it is unnecessary to prove my point.

    I supported my claim with argument.

  6. #56
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    That they were intentional is historical fact. Sufficient cause is an affirmative claim so the burden is on those who would argue that it wasn't objectively immoral to come up with one.

    A load of gobbledy gook that proves nothing except there was some shared consensual opinion on it. Not fact. Fact is, not everyone believed...***esp at the time** that there wasnt sufficient reason. Ask any anti-Semite.

    Have you heard of the Flat Earth Society?

    Since the shape and size of the Earth is measurable, it is fact. Provable. It doesnt matter what they believe if it can be proven.
    ..................
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #57
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Morality may be subjective, but not some morals are more subjective than others. Certain concepts, like prohibitions against killing other people are shared by such an overwhelming majority that you can build a society around them even with the outliers. You can use root concepts as a foundation upon which you can create meta-rules that promote said concept in reality. Thus, you get things like laws against building a fireworks factory under an apartment, which is based on objective calculations that it would violate the core concept of not killing other people. Such a system is still not truly objective, but its certainly considerably more so than banning wearing a certain type of fabric of Thursdays because your deity said so.
    I agree. There are degrees of subjectivity. Deciding how much subjectivity is too much, is a decision that requires extreme amounts of subjectivity.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  8. #58
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I'm not going to argue about the soul, as it is unnecessary to prove my point.

    I supported my claim with argument.
    Good. What is your point again? Mine is that human nature is biological in nature, and that morals and rights are human constructs....not biological in origin.

    And fortunately for you, I've forgotten what you didnt support with your argument because you deliberately avoided it. I'll let it go right now because I really dont care. I may go look for it later, for reference. But just you saying "I did!" doesnt not mean you actually did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #59
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    True, but there is a difference between legislating morality that maximizes freedom without causing harm to others and legislating morality that maximizes harm to others and minimizes freedom.

    Generally when the morality comes from extremist sides of religion, we get the later. See Iran. Or Saudi Arabia.
    There are extremes on both the left and the right.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    ..................
    I as I said, it is historical fact that the German government intentionally killed people during the holocaust. The burden is on whoever is arguing for the holocaust not being objectively immoral to show sufficient cause, that's basic logic.

    And the immorality of the holocaust is also provable.

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