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  • abortion laws

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  • both

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  • all laws

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Thread: legislating morality

  1. #41
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    In nature, in biology, there are no rights at all. Including not for humans. Morality and rights are human constructs.
    Why do you equate human nature with biology?

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    But authentic rights cannot be in conflict, else they would not both be rights.
    Not at all. You don't get to declare something is so and then demand people "demonstrate" it in line with your suggestion.

    I don't need to "demonstrate" how a right can be a right if there's conflict, because I've made no claim that a right can not exist outside of conflict.

    You're misconstruing the notion of a right being protected and/or respected by others as being REQUIRED for a right to exist. I disagree entirely.

    A Natural Right is simply something that an individual, in the state of nature, is free to attempt and do as they see fit.

    There is no protection against having those rights infringed upon. There is no "right" for your rights to not be interfered with.

    I do not believe a natural right can be something that requires an action (or inaction) on the part of another person.

    How do you understand human nature?
    I understand human nature is that an individual will try their best to survive in a fashion that most pleases them.

    In a state of nature, absent a social contract, this is essentially survival of the fittest.

  3. #43
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Please provide evidence for this claim.



    Scholastic realism.
    None of these things is fact, only opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palecon
    1. A thing is good insofar as it is in accordance with its nature (thus a good car is one which works properly, or a good pencil is one which writes well).

    2. Free human acts are matters of morality.

    3. Therefore an act which is against human nature is morally wrong.

    4. It is against man's social nature to intentionally kill others without sufficient cause (since if it were, there would be a contradiction, as if such were right, then by doing this right thing a man would deprive others of their ability to do it to him, which would violate the fundamental equality of humans).

    5. The holocaust was intentional killings committed without sufficient cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #44
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Why do you equate human nature with biology?
    Because that is where human nature is derived from. Just like any other animal's.

    Man's morals and rights are constructs based on the need to survive and reproduce.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Yes, I have. See above. If you wish to refute my argument, please actually do so, rather than simply ignore it.

    Yes it can, as demonstrated previously.

    The only "interpretation" was that the killings were intentional, which is disputed only by holocaust deniers and minimalists.

    More absurdity. You have not demonstrated such.


    There are actions. Period. Then there are interpretations of those actions. Period
    Those interpretations are subjective. Period.
    Your interpretations come from your subjective view on what is right and wrong. Which only makes them objective within that framework.
    But in reality, because it is only based on a personal belief, it is therefore subjective.
    There is no universal morality.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    None of these things is fact, only opinion.
    How so?

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Because that is where human nature is derived from. Just like any other animal's.

    Man's morals and rights are constructs based on the need to survive and reproduce.
    I'd dispute that, but even if it is accepted, that does not make them equivalent. Just as writing is not the same thing as a pencil, even though it is derived from a pencil.

    And as demonstrated, these morals show aggressive homicide to be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    More absurdity. You have not demonstrated such.


    There are actions. Period. Then there are interpretations of those actions. Period
    Those interpretations are subjective. Period.
    Your interpretations come from your subjective view on what is right and wrong. Which only makes them objective within that framework.
    But in reality, because it is only based on a personal belief, it is therefore subjective.
    There is no universal morality.
    Your failure to actually address my argument is noted.

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    How so?
    Most or all are assumptions, opinions, on 'human nature.' And the assumption is that the Holocaust was wrong.

    Not everyone agreed or even agrees now. My opinion on those that think that is subjective as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    I'd dispute that, but even if it is accepted, that does not make them equivalent. Just as writing is not the same thing as a pencil, even though it is derived from a pencil.

    And as demonstrated, these morals show aggressive homicide to be wrong.


    .
    How do you dispute it?

    And you didnt demonstrate anything....that's why you need to explain it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #50
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Most or all are assumptions, opinions, on 'human nature.' And the assumption is that the Holocaust was wrong.

    Not everyone agreed or even agrees now. My opinion on those that think that is subjective as well.
    I didn't start with the assumption that the holocaust was wrong. What specific false assumption did I make?

    Not everyone agrees on the shape of the Earth.

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