View Poll Results: which laws?

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  • abortion laws

    7 18.42%
  • animal cruelty laws

    1 2.63%
  • both

    7 18.42%
  • neither

    4 10.53%
  • all laws

    17 44.74%
  • no laws

    2 5.26%
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Thread: legislating morality

  1. #171
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    What are they based on, then?
    As I said earlier - protecting individual rights and maintaining the social order
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #172
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    As I said earlier - protecting individual rights and maintaining the social order
    And why do you think that's important?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  3. #173
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And why do you think that's important?
    It's important because it's the basis of the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #174
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It's important because it's the basis of the law.
    Haha, no, I mean why is it important enough to be the basis of the law?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  5. #175
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Haha, no, I mean why is it important enough to be the basis of the law?
    Because it's what works

    Legal systems based on morality are failures.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #176
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Because it's what works

    Legal systems based on morality are failures.
    "What works"? What is the definition of works?

    And apparently not, because you think it "works". The idea that it's good that someone can have something of their own and laws will protect their possession is, indeed, based upon someone's morality.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  7. #177
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    "What works"? What is the definition of works?

    And apparently not, because you think it "works". The idea that it's good that someone can have something of their own and laws will protect their possession is, indeed, based upon someone's morality.
    I am sure that most people see the protection of property as the moral thing to do. However, such laws can be justified on the basis I described. Ockham's Law says that which is not necessary should be discarded. Justifying laws on a moral basis is not needed as the justifications I supplied are adequate. On the other hand, moral justifications are not sufficient to explain our legal system (ex what is the moral justification for zoning laws?) and therefor cannot be said to be the basis. Furthermore, using morality as a basis for law leads to silliness like making lying a crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #178
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I am sure that most people see the protection of property as the moral thing to do. However, such laws can be justified on the basis I described. Ockham's Law says that which is not necessary should be discarded. Justifying laws on a moral basis is not needed as the justifications I supplied are adequate. On the other hand, moral justifications are not sufficient to explain our legal system (ex what is the moral justification for zoning laws?) and therefor cannot be said to be the basis. Furthermore, using morality as a basis for law leads to silliness like making lying a crime.
    No one said they were needed to justify it; just that they are indeed based upon it. No one said morality should be used as a basis, either.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  9. #179
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No one said they were needed to justify it; just that they are indeed based upon it. No one said morality should be used as a basis, either.
    I don't see the difference between "justify" and "based" Saying "We need this law because x is immoral" is both justifying and basing the law on morality.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #180
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No one said they were needed to justify it; just that they are indeed based upon it. No one said morality should be used as a basis, either.
    By using moral opinion to set law...we justify penalty.

    Thus we gather multiple opinions of said morality through vote...or through those we vote to represent us.

    It is obviously imperfect....but, it is the best system humans have come up with as of yet....IMHO.

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