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  • abortion laws

    7 18.42%
  • animal cruelty laws

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  • both

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  • neither

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  • all laws

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Thread: legislating morality

  1. #141
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Feel free to tell me about the morality of according a fetus rights that supersede those of the mother.
    That's a strawman. I'm willing to make an exception to save the life of the mother.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And how exactly that would be 'workable' in society...you know without invading her personal and medical records? Having the state be responsible for the fetus's wellbeing in uterero if it's deemed she's 'abusing it,' etc.

    Without little trite phrases of avoidance.
    I expect it to be workable in society the same as it was before RvW.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  2. #142
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Of course it does, to desire a civil society is a moral base. Why do you think tribal societies have killed without pause? Their moral imperative is to gather scarce resources such as territory, workers, and food. To them it is moral to protect their own tribe. Our society's moral imperative is to respect individual rights and property. There is no concept of civil society apart from morality.
    No, it need not be a moral imperative but rather a selfish one.

    I can protect my tribe, not because it's the moral thing to do, but because I benefit from doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #143
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, it need not be a moral imperative but rather a selfish one.

    I can protect my tribe, not because it's the moral thing to do, but because I benefit from doing so.
    You've got a good point, but is there a significant difference between forcing your morals onto others, and forcing your opinions onto others?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  4. #144
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    That's a strawman. I'm willing to make an exception to save the life of the mother.


    I expect it to be workable in society the same as it was before RvW.
    It was not workable for women...they had to risk their lives getting illegal abortions.

    And why is it ok to kill the unborn to save the mother?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #145
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It was not workable for women...they had to risk their lives getting illegal abortions.
    had to?



    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And why is it ok to kill the unborn to save the mother?
    If it wasn't, you'd be putting the child above the mother. I have no desire to do that. I believe in equality.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  6. #146
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You're right. The left never seeks to control the behaviors of others. Lol.
    Maybe you should actually read what I wrote before fabricating arguments I never made. It's bad when you make up an argument that was refuted within the very words you quoted.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #147
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    You've got a good point, but is there a significant difference between forcing your morals onto others, and forcing your opinions onto others?
    My point has nothing to do with your question

    The thread is about legislating morality, and my point is that while laws can be, and often are, based on morality, legitimate laws are based on the promotion of a civil society. This is particularly true in nations, like the US, where we have the freedom of belief.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #148
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    had to?



    If it wasn't, you'd be putting the child above the mother. I have no desire to do that. I believe in equality.
    but in your case you're placing the mother above the child, in the event say of a medical condition that requires induced abortion, where the kid might survive and the mother die, if both are equal as you say, then how can morally decide to save the mother? clearly the parties are not equal in your opinion if the mother gets the preference.....

    a better argument is this, medical occurences requiring abortion to save the mothers life are so rare and few that it can be tolerated... versus abortion for convienence, which is far more common.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

  9. #149
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    but in your case you're placing the mother above the child, in the event say of a medical condition that requires induced abortion, where the kid might survive and the mother die, if both are equal as you say, then how can morally decide to save the mother? clearly the parties are not equal in your opinion if the mother gets the preference.....

    a better argument is this, medical occurences requiring abortion to save the mothers life are so rare and few that it can be tolerated... versus abortion for convienence, which is far more common.
    The Constitution puts the born above the unborn, by granting the govt the power to protect the rights of the born while not recognizing that the unborn have any rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #150
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The Constitution puts the born above the unborn, by granting the govt the power to protect the rights of the born while not recognizing that the unborn have any rights.
    abortion was not an issue in colonial america, that's a fallacy, so of course there's nothing in the constitution about it.

    there's nothing about cars or computers or genetically modified corn or what have you. you can argue the constitution espouses a philosophy of limited government involvement and as a result government shouldn't be involved in choice to abort, that would be a valid argument IMO but saying "the constitution doesn't recognize rights of the unborn" is, at least to me, not a great argument because it presupposes the founders even considered the issue.

    I do not favor making abortion illegal BTW....
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
    -Dixy Lee Ray

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