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  • abortion laws

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  • animal cruelty laws

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  • both

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  • all laws

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Thread: legislating morality

  1. #131
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    Re: legislating morality

    All laws legislate morality.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  2. #132
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    What if I do not care about a civil society? What if there is a scarce commodity and I find it in my self interest to have it. If morality did not guide my way via law and punishment would I not simply take it?
    The fact that some people do not care about civil society does not mean the laws that promote a civil society are unjustified on a basis that has nothing to do with morality.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #133
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    That's the point of this website?


    Depending on the issue, core values are enough explanation. If someone was against capital punishment based on principle, would they need to cite crime statistics to support their opposition? If they said 'two wrongs don't make a right', is that the same as saying nothing at all? Would their opposition to the death penalty be "unacceptable" or "invalid"?
    The purpose of debate is to support your position, and if you badger other people for answers, then attempt the same courtesy or recognize that courteously, that you only have opinion and nothing else.

    And for your example, it depends on the opinion your give. If you are against the DP for religious reasons, you can cite the passage in the Bible about killing. OTOH, that is so widely known that you would not need the citation. However if you based your position on the DP reducing crime...then you'd need to show those statistics. If you based it on how it affected one "person's" rights and not someone else's, you'd have to show how the 2nd person was actually not harmed by the protection of the first's, instead of giving cryptic little one-liners that do not support the position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #134
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    The purpose of debate is to support your position,
    That's what I just said.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    and if you badger other people for answers, then attempt the same courtesy or recognize that courteously, that you only have opinion and nothing else.
    obviously



    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And for your example, it depends on the opinion your give. If you are against the DP for religious reasons, you can cite the passage in the Bible about killing. OTOH, that is so widely known that you would not need the citation. However if you based your position on the DP reducing crime...then you'd need to show those statistics. If you based it on how it affected one "person's" rights and not someone else's, you'd have to show how the 2nd person was actually not harmed by the protection of the first's, instead of giving cryptic little one-liners that do not support the position.
    What if I rely completely on my core values and my only reason for opposing the death penalty is 'two wrongs don't make a right'?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  5. #135
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post

    Obviously.

    What if I rely completely on my core values and my only reason for opposing the death penalty is 'two wrongs don't make a right'?
    Not that obviously, since I described a common posting behavior of your own.


    That's a fairly common position so perhaps no one would ask you to support it further. Dealing with 2 *people* who have *equal* rights. Your stated position is that the court system does not have the right to take the right to life from a "person" that took the right to life from another "person" because they have "equal" rights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  6. #136
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The fact that some people do not care about civil society does not mean the laws that promote a civil society are unjustified on a basis that has nothing to do with morality.
    Of course it does, to desire a civil society is a moral base. Why do you think tribal societies have killed without pause? Their moral imperative is to gather scarce resources such as territory, workers, and food. To them it is moral to protect their own tribe. Our society's moral imperative is to respect individual rights and property. There is no concept of civil society apart from morality.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  7. #137
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Not that obviously, since I described a common posting behavior of your own.
    if you say so


    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That's a fairly common position so perhaps no one would ask you to support it further. Dealing with 2 *people* who have *equal* rights. Your stated position is that the court system does not have the right to take the right to life from a "person" that took the right to life from another "person" because they have "equal" rights.
    If it's OK for the death penalty, why isn't it OK for other social issues such as abortion?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  8. #138
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    if you say so


    If it's OK for the death penalty, why isn't it OK for other social issues such as abortion?
    I do say so, and can post many examples. Would you like me to?

    I was expanding on your example of a DP position. Re: abortion, that only applies to 'persons.' If you want to discuss that subject, maybe you could return to the thread where you avoided addressing that instead of taking this one off-topic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #139
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I do say so, and can post many examples. Would you like me to?

    I was expanding on your example of a DP position. Re: abortion, that only applies to 'persons.' If you want to discuss that subject, maybe you could return to the thread where you avoided addressing that instead of taking this one off-topic?
    off topic? ____ing hilarious
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  10. #140
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    off topic? ____ing hilarious
    Ha you're right....I thought I was in a death penalty thread I'm also commenting in, after you used the dp example.

    Feel free to tell me about the morality of according a fetus rights that supersede those of the mother. And how exactly that would be 'workable' in society...you know without invading her personal and medical records? Having the state be responsible for the fetus's wellbeing in uterero if it's deemed she's 'abusing it,' etc.

    Without little trite phrases of avoidance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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