View Poll Results: which laws?

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  • abortion laws

    7 18.42%
  • animal cruelty laws

    1 2.63%
  • both

    7 18.42%
  • neither

    4 10.53%
  • all laws

    17 44.74%
  • no laws

    2 5.26%
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Thread: legislating morality

  1. #111
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    Re: legislating morality

    Getting back to the topic of the thread, the three people who voted for the first two options, really need to explain their votes. Actually, if you voted for anything other than option #5, you need to explain your vote. I see people pretending to do that without actually doing it.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  2. #112
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Objective vs. subjective morality is one of my favorite topics, but it isn't what I had in mind when I created this thread. I feel that objective morality exists, but that's my subjective opinion. Anyone who thinks that they can prove or disprove the existence of objective morality, doesn't understand the difference between fact and opinion.
    This is as close to objective morality that humans will ever achieve.


  3. #113
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Objective vs. subjective morality is one of my favorite topics, but it isn't what I had in mind when I created this thread. I feel that objective morality exists, but that's my subjective opinion. Anyone who thinks that they can prove or disprove the existence of objective morality, doesn't understand the difference between fact and opinion.
    I think we can prove which moral position is more objective, through a quantification of the perspectives (not individuals but perspectives) accounted for.

  4. #114
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Objective vs. subjective morality is one of my favorite topics, but it isn't what I had in mind when I created this thread. I feel that objective morality exists, but that's my subjective opinion. Anyone who thinks that they can prove or disprove the existence of objective morality, doesn't understand the difference between fact and opinion.
    I think the reason it's coming up though is because there's a reasonalbe argument to be made that ALL laws, to SOME degree, ARE legislating morality.

  5. #115
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    there's a reasonalbe argument to be made that ALL laws, to SOME degree, ARE legislating morality.
    That was my reason for creating the thread, and it isn't merely a reasonable argument, it's a certainty.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  6. #116
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    I can do many things in society never dreamed of in the wild. For example I can travel at amazing speeds ad can be hundreds if miles away in a short time span. I have all sorts of entertainment options beyond campfire stories.

    I question the assertion that the natural man could do more or almost anything. I have been miles in the air without dying. They couldn't do that. I have talked with people thousands of miles away. They couldn't do that. I have the opportunity to understand the world much better than they could possibly imagine.

    Natural man was quite limited.
    A person in the wild can say anything, do anything he can, pee anywhere and refuse to serve anyone. He can even try to make his own airplane. You can fly in an airplane, but you had to be searched first. You had to give up some freedom for the convenience of being able to fly.

  7. #117
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    A person in the wild can say anything, do anything he can, pee anywhere and refuse to serve anyone. He can even try to make his own airplane. You can fly in an airplane, but you had to be searched first. You had to give up some freedom for the convenience of being able to fly.
    I have both lost and gained freedoms. I am now free to fly where for the natural man that is not a meaningful possibility.

  8. #118
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And when you get it from the left, you get things like bans on Happy Meals and sodas over 16 ounces and incandescent light bulbs, as well as regulation of baby formula and e-cigs (as if they're the same as regular cigs) or you might be legally forced into buying something like health insurance (that most people had anyway).
    There isn't a ban on incandescent light bulbs. If you have an incandescent light bulb that can meet the efficiency standards, you're free to import, manufacture and sell them. Secondly, the efficiency standards came out of a Republican administration. Mandatory health insurance is actually a right leaning product, and it makes sense as it pushes personal responsibility and reduces the need for the state. When people have their own insurance, the state does not have to step in as much. Until we are ready to remove Reagan's philosophy of not withholding life saving care, that's what we have to do. And e-cigs simply lack the necessary information to decide that they are not as dangerous. Besides, kids have already died from drinking the liquid nicotine. And the right has no problems with restricting corporate access to children either. Do you think that the Family Research Council would be okay with mass advertising to female students in schools for questionable lines of clothing? Not a chance. Do you think the FRC would be okay with unregulation of baby formula? We've already seen what happens in a poorly regulated baby formula market: dead babies in China. You think the right would be okay with that in America? The only non-half baked argument here is the soda, but it is a right leaning idea to restrict the dangerous behavior of others when we have to pay for their consequences. Again, we are not ready to throw out Reagan's healthcare philosophy. But nor are we totally okay with punishing everyone for the bad healthcare choices of a few.

    The point is that all laws are a certain amount of coersion and all attempts at passing legislation are an attempt to force others who may not agree to adhere to your brand of morality so it does become a little funny to see the constant railing against religion in this country as if they're doing something worse or just more nefarious than any other special interest group.
    Except that the side you dislike doesn't call for laws that would push women back towards being chattel. Granted, the Soviets were pretty evil, but you do have to give them a hand in how they had far better equality. Unlike, oh, say Tehran or Riyadh.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #119
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    A person in the wild can say anything, do anything he can, pee anywhere and refuse to serve anyone. He can even try to make his own airplane. You can fly in an airplane, but you had to be searched first. You had to give up some freedom for the convenience of being able to fly.
    While we may have that right in the wild because no piece of paper says otherwise, often times attempts to exercise those rights will be met with force, often violence or death. You don't have a right or a freedom unless you have the means to use it. The state of nature was anything but free.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #120
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: legislating morality

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    There isn't a ban on incandescent light bulbs. If you have an incandescent light bulb that can meet the efficiency standards, you're free to import, manufacture and sell them. Secondly, the efficiency standards came out of a Republican administration. Mandatory health insurance is actually a right leaning product, and it makes sense as it pushes personal responsibility and reduces the need for the state. When people have their own insurance, the state does not have to step in as much. Until we are ready to remove Reagan's philosophy of not withholding life saving care, that's what we have to do. And e-cigs simply lack the necessary information to decide that they are not as dangerous. Besides, kids have already died from drinking the liquid nicotine. And the right has no problems with restricting corporate access to children either. Do you think that the Family Research Council would be okay with mass advertising to female students in schools for questionable lines of clothing? Not a chance. Do you think the FRC would be okay with unregulation of baby formula? We've already seen what happens in a poorly regulated baby formula market: dead babies in China. You think the right would be okay with that in America? The only non-half baked argument here is the soda, but it is a right leaning idea to restrict the dangerous behavior of others when we have to pay for their consequences. Again, we are not ready to throw out Reagan's healthcare philosophy. But nor are we totally okay with punishing everyone for the bad healthcare choices of a few.



    Except that the side you dislike doesn't call for laws that would push women back towards being chattel. Granted, the Soviets were pretty evil, but you do have to give them a hand in how they had far better equality. Unlike, oh, say Tehran or Riyadh.
    You're right. The left never seeks to control the behaviors of others. Lol.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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