• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
This link might be of assistance.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you meant by that.

I ask you again - you claim to own property and with it comes certain rights. How do you know you own the property?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
What does any of the stuff you just wrote have to do with the right of an American to be served at public accommodations when they are protected by civil rights laws? Of course you can be refused service for something like no shoes or lack of clothes - but that is NOT what we are talking about.......... and you darn well know it.

And that is the right that is violated.
Click to expand...

That's not what you said. You said all Americans, which includes the dude without a shirt. You do not have right to a man's property or labor, forcing labor against will is typically unjust use of force. The civil rights you talk of are not based on actual rights. If someone doesn't make a cake, you have no right to demand that they do. While there are certainly cases were refusal of service infringes upon the rights of another, it is not universal. You do not have right to someone else's labor.

But how far is this "right" of yours go? You've already amended it from the absolute statement you made earlier, what groups can be discriminated against in service?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
I have no idea what you meant by that.

I ask you again - you claim to own property and with it comes certain rights. How do you know you own the property?
Click to expand...

Bill of sale.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Y'know, if one group does not allow dissenting opinions (like today's GOP) whereas the other group certainly does have dissenting opinions (like today's Democratic party), that sorta blows away the "hive-mind" claim.

Just because you think about a terrible-sounding accusation doesn't mean the people you don't like are guilty of that accusation.
Click to expand...

Have you missed the last 6 years of defend Obama no matter what? Perhaps you aren't paying attention.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Perhaps in the right wing noise machine that is what you hear...
US Conservative said:
Have you missed the last 6 years of defend Obama no matter what? Perhaps you aren't paying attention.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
I have no idea what you meant by that.

I ask you again - you claim to own property and with it comes certain rights. How do you know you own the property?
Click to expand...

I have already provided you the information you requested. If that doesn't answer your question then I'm afraid I don't know.

You want the government to interfere with the ability of your fellow American to control who has access to his property. In my book, that's unethical and unjustified. A person ought to be able to control who has access to the property he owns.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

mak2 said:
Perhaps in the right wing noise machine that is what you hear...
Click to expand...

Except there are people from all sides that can see whats happening, even noted leftists. But being a voice counter to the chorus wont stop the hive.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
That's not what you said. You said all Americans, which includes the dude without a shirt. You do not have right to a man's property or labor, forcing labor against will is typically unjust use of force. The civil rights you talk of are not based on actual rights. If someone doesn't make a cake, you have no right to demand that they do. While there are certainly cases were refusal of service infringes upon the rights of another, it is not universal. You do not have right to someone else's labor.

But how far is this "right" of yours go? You've already amended it from the absolute statement you made earlier, what groups can be discriminated against in service?
Click to expand...

1- get over it... its the law of the land and the policy of no shirt no service does not negate that Americans have a right to public accommodations. You are grasping at very flimsy straws which fall apart.

2 - Civil rights are not based on actual rights? okay I will play along... what the heck are "actual rights"?

3 - Taxation deprives people of the fruits of their labor every day. So what? That is authorized by the society we live in and the peoples government. So we most certainly have a right to the labor of others in the real world USA we live in.

4 - If you want to see which groups are protected classes, I would advise you look up the Civil Rights laws to satisfy your curiosity.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
I have already provided you the information you requested. If that doesn't answer your question then I'm afraid I don't know.

You want the government to interfere with the ability of your fellow American to control who has access to his property. In my book, that's unethical and unjustified. A person ought to be able to control who has access to the property he owns.
Click to expand...

You mean the site which refers to many ways the GOVERNMENT can help you prove you own the land?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
1- get over it... its the law of the land and the policy of no shirt no service does not negate that Americans have a right to public accommodations. You are grasping at very flimsy straws which fall apart.

2 - Civil rights are not based on actual rights? okay I will play along... what the heck are "actual rights"?

3 - Taxation deprives people of the fruits of their labor every day. So what? That is authorized by the society we live in and the peoples government. So we most certainly have a right to the labor of others in the real world USA we live in.

4 - If you want to see which groups are protected classes, I would advise you look up the Civil Rights laws to satisfy your curiosity.
Click to expand...

1 - Stupid argument. Just there are other ways in which people can be denied service. You made an absolute statement, and have thus had to augment it. But even someone exercising a right can be denied service.

2 - Life, liberty, and property form the basis of rights.

3 - Just because there is taxation doesn't mean that there are no limits

4 - So your outrage is limited to only those people you feel deserve to be "protected" and can thus commandeer the labor of others against their will. Nice.
 
Last edited:
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
How do you know its legit?
Click to expand...

These things tend to be processed through contract and government. All you're doing is playing a very stupid argument here somehow trying to throw into contest the very concept of property, which has been well established for several hundred years.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
So your outrage is limited to only those people you feel deserve to be "protected" and can thus commandeer the labor of others against their will. Nice.
Click to expand...

Outrage!?!?!?!? What outrage? All I am doing is explaining Reality 101 to you.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
You mean the site which refers to many ways the GOVERNMENT can help you prove you own the land?
Click to expand...

Yes. And you advocate that the law interfere with the ability of your fellow American to control who has access to his property. In my book that's unethical and unjustified. A person ought to be able to control who has access to the property he owns.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

You have a right to not be discriminated against by the government in the sense of free speech, religion, public services, etc.

Individuals should have the right to discriminate in their personal lives and business. Forced servitude is wrong and should be an illegal infringement on the individual rights of the person/business owner.

Both are important and I wouldn't say one is more important that the other.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Outrage!?!?!?!? What outrage? All I am doing is explaining Reality 101 to you.
Click to expand...

No, what you're doing is trying to set up a one way street in order to support the discrimination you like while using the guns of government against that which you do not. There's no real consistency and all you have is appeal to authority....logical fallacy.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
These things tend to be processed through contract and government. All you're doing is playing a very stupid argument here somehow trying to throw into contest the very concept of property, which has been well established for several hundred years.
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight: government is the one which can provide a definitive determination to who actually owns property and you are willing to accept governments word on that and abide by the governments laws regarding that but when government decides other issues of property ownership and how it is to be used all the sudden its the mean old government which should stay out of your business?

Got it loud and clear.

Typical libertarian hypocrite wanting it both ways as it suits them.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
No, what you're doing is trying to set up a one way street in order to support the discrimination you like while using the guns of government against that which you do not. There's no real consistency and all you have is appeal to authority....logical fallacy.
Click to expand...

Its an appeal to reality. I get why libertarians don't recognize it for what it is.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
So let me get this straight: government is the one which can provide a definitive determination to who actually owns property and you are willing to accept governments word on that and abide by the governments laws regarding that but when government decides other issues of property ownership and how it is to be used all the sudden its the mean old government which should stay out of your business?

Got it loud and clear.

Typical libertarian hypocrite wanting it both ways as it suits them.
Click to expand...

What a stupid argument. Libertarians are not anarchists, there is legitimate use of government and contract is part of it.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Its an appeal to reality. I get why libertarians don't recognize it for what it is.
Click to expand...

No, it's appeal to authority, perchance it's time to learn your logical fallacies. Stupid arguments and emotional lashing out is not going to change it.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
So let me get this straight: government is the one which can provide a definitive determination to who actually owns property and you are willing to accept governments word on that and abide by the governments laws regarding that but when government decides other issues of property ownership and how it is to be used all the sudden its the mean old government which should stay out of your business?

Got it loud and clear.

Typical libertarian hypocrite wanting it both ways as it suits them.
Click to expand...

What is hard to grasp here? The govt should recognize private property (to the lefts dismay). That is not a green light to stick its nose into everything else (also to the lefts dismay).
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

US Conservative said:
What is hard to grasp here? The govt should recognize private property (to the lefts dismay). That is not a green light to stick its nose into everything else (also to the lefts dismay).
Click to expand...

The owner of a piece of property ought to be the one who controls access to that property. Otherwise, what's the point?

Of course the collectivists would like all property to be controlled by the government. Wannabe tyrants can't change their spots.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

who says the cops have to be called about it, anyway? He leaves or the morgue wagon can be called, he can take his pick, and it shouldn't matter if he's purple polka dotted. It's private property and the owne has told you to leave, you LEAVE, or else you never go anywhere, ever again.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
Yes. And you advocate that the law interfere with the ability of your fellow American to control who has access to his property. In my book that's unethical and unjustified. A person ought to be able to control who has access to the property he owns.
Click to expand...

YOu want government in your life when it is to your advantage and then you want small government to stay out of your life when it is not to your liking. At least you are consistent with your past behaviors in this area.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
What a stupid argument. Libertarians are not anarchists, there is legitimate use of government and contract is part of it.
Click to expand...

Yeah - I know - you love government when it provides you with advantages and benefits and hate it when it imposes some obligation or duty upon you.

Nothing new given you are libertarians.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom