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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
A self imposed delusionary state where you convince yourself you actually possess something when reality indicates that you do not is indeed a sign of mental illness.
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Wow, I gave you the chance to back off your application of mental illness to slaves and gays and you doubled down. Both groups thought they possess freedom when the then "current" reality says they don't.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

maquiscat said:
But this is what my point is. This is not cutting it to too fine a point. The distinction is very important, especially in a thread where we are talking about what rights apply and when. When you state that one cannot exercise their rights on your property and leave it at that, it is no different than telling the property owner that he cannot exercise his right of association on his own property. You mean something different, but in the end you don't say it. The true statement is that your property rights are not overridden by anyone else's rights nor are their rights overridden by your property rights.Consequences may occur from the interaction of the various rights, but the fact remains that neither set of rights override the others. Once we enter into the force area then we are no longer talking about what rights the person on the property(vice property owner) has since he is no longer acting within his rights.
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i think if i say..... you can keep using free speech until the police come and take you out the door....if someone cannot figure that out, they should not even be using a forum.

as i has said, 99.9 % of the time i will not care what you do in my business, meaning you can exercise the rights you have without problems, but you don't have the ability to assert your rights, and tell me, i cannot prevent in any way you from exercising them, meaning calling the police.

i can excise my rights on my property without the police being involved, you cant.

the problem we face is people thinking all of their rights, give them authority were ever they go to say and act without impunity [ because they think, "hey" its my right], and you the owner have no recourse to stop them.

this idea, [we have here in the thread] people get in their minds, is....you must treat me with respect, dignity, and fairly........which they don't get..........i don't have to do any of those things..........i can be rude, from sun up to sun down.

another thing this idea of freedom "FROM"......this idea comes into play sometimes, when people believe if someone is doing something they don't like, yet its not a violation, that person must stop.....example- some people get the idea, its freedom from religion, thinking you cannot display/ engage in religion if they are around to see it.

are people so uneducated about rights, privileges, that i have to explain every detail, that i cannot use general terms, i am starting to shake my head, and feel sad at the situation in america.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Again - you make up nonsense and lamely attempt to attribute it to me in a sad attempt to distort and pervert and eventually demonize those who disagree with the propertytarian obsession.
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wrong, a statist is a person who believes in government,...which by your words, that is what i believe you are about since i have ever heard from you something government "cannot do",...you even believe our rights come via the government.

i my get on to you [ demonize if you like], when you assert that what i believe, would hurt, kill, starve, do damage to other people, in other words, "fear mongering"
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

shrubnose said:
He didn't write that Black people and women could be free, with the same rights that white men who owned land claimed for themselves.

Try reading the original U.S. Constitution. Very educational.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
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yes, you should try it, since the constitution is not meant to address the people, it creates federalism between states and the federal government.

is the federal government given power over the people by the constitution....no!

does the constitution grant or gives rights to the people..............no!

so how is the constitution suppose to dispense rights/ freedoms to people....when it is BUSY creating federalism VIA the construction of the federal government.

you concerns about rights, land, and so forth, ...should be addressed on the state level, not federal level.
 
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Where are you getting this rule from?
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The very definition of inalienable Rights and Privilege.

Dictionary.com ~ inalienable rights
Businessdictionary.com ~ inalienable rights
Mirriam-Webster ~ inalienable
US Legal ~ inalienable rights
Thefreedictionary.com ~ privlege
Mirriam-Webster ~ privilege


Need I go on? Where do you get that Rights can be taken away or given?

haymarket said:
I have a perfect understanding. What I do NOT have is your belief system.
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If you did then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

haymarket said:
Baloney. Just deal with what I actually say and not what you want it to be.
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Why? You draw to conclusions based on what people say all the time. Why hold everyone else to a standard that you won't adhere to also?

haymarket said:
It seems that your anger is because of the way the information is being characterized in the article which differs with your own particular views on the subject. The basic reality here is that both liberal and conservative groups were investigated.
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How do you know he's angry?

haymarket said:
Where are you getting this idea from? We are people - not property. You are ascribing some absolute right where there is none. And all because you want to be a bigot.
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Ascribing that the other person wants to be a bigot based on his belief that there is no right to not be discriminated against. Sure sounds like you are just dealing with what he said and not what you want it to be huh?

I could go on and on showinig posts where you have ascribed things to people that they did not say. But that you believe they meant.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
What you advocate is the political and legal environment which would then permit it as a natural consequence of changes in our laws.
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What I advocate is the liberty to be who and what I am that does not violate the rights of others, i.e. require any unwilling contribution or participation by any other. What I advocate is an understanding that requiring involuntary servitude to another takes away our liberty and with it all our rights.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
yes, you should try it, since the constitution is not meant to address the people, it creates federalism between states and the federal government.

is the federal government given power over the people by the constitution....no!

does the constitution grant or gives rights to the people..............no!

so how is the constitution suppose to dispense rights/ freedoms to people....when it is BUSY creating federalism VIA the construction of the federal government.

you concerns about rights, land, and so forth, ...should be addressed on the state level, not federal level.
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That's exactly what the Confederates (Who got their butts kicked in the U.S. Civil War.) thought.

Case closed.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AliHajiSheik said:
Wow, I gave you the chance to back off your application of mental illness to slaves and gays and you doubled down. Both groups thought they possess freedom when the then "current" reality says they don't.
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WOW!!! What a bunch of nonsense. Nice to know how you are speaking for 4 million slaves who you want to believe thought they had rights and freedoms when their everyday reality told them otherwise in ways you and I could never contemplate nor appreciate.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

shrubnose said:
That's exactly what the Confederates (Who got their butts kicked in the U.S. Civil War.) thought.

Case closed.
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first:.....you took your Que ..of my Madison post, with deals with the founders....and the Constitution of 1787

if you think i am wrong...fine!....i will call you on it.... then.......post a reply showing me where in the Constitution IT ..grants, gives, bestows rights /freedoms on the people, or it gives government general authority over the life's liberty and property of the people.

please show me where this is..

as stated to you before, the constitution does away with the articles of confederation, creating a new federal government,and delegating to them few powers, making them very limited.

all powers which are not delegated to the federal government by the constitution REMAIN the powers of the states, and to the people.

in the creation of the new federal government it separates powers between the states and the federal government.

the states are prohibited from engaging in the delegated powers of the federal government, and the federal government is prohibited from engaging in state powers, and both the federal and states government are prohibited from taking a few actions.IE.....[No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed]

THE CONSTITUTION IS not LIBERATING DOCUMENT..................IT IS A LIMITING DOCUMENT.

the Constitution does not grant any authority to the federal government [congress] in the life's liberties and property of the people, because there is no such clause in the constitution

shrubnose........you stated civil war.......however again you initial comment, started with Madison,,....not the confederate states of america.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
We take other peoples property on a daily basis through taxation. That is part of the price all pay for living in a civilized society.
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That we do, aggregate society comes at cost. There's no such thing as a free lunch and the labor of others is not free, we have to pay for it. That is neither here nor there. Don't deflect, what rights are infringed upon.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
first:.....you took your Que ..of my Madison post, with deals with the founders....and the Constitution of 1787

if you think i am wrong...fine!...
Click to expand...
.i will call you on it.... then.......post a reply showing me where in the Constitution IT ..grants, gives, bestows rights /freedoms on the people, or it gives government general authority over the life's liberty and property of the people.

please show me where this is..

as stated to you before, the constitution does away with the articles of confederation, creating a new federal government,and delegating to them few powers, making them very limited.

all powers which are not delegated to the federal government by the constitution REMAIN the powers of the states, and to the people.

in the creation of the new federal government it separates powers between the states and the federal government.

the states are prohibited from engaging in the delegated powers of the federal government, and the federal government is prohibited from engaging in state powers, and both the federal and states government are prohibited from taking a few actions.IE.....[No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed]

THE CONSTITUTION IS not LIBERATING DOCUMENT..................IT IS A LIMITING DOCUMENT.

the Constitution does not grant any authority to the federal government [congress] in the life's liberties and property of the people, because there is no such clause in the constitution

shrubnose........you stated civil war.......however again you initial comment, started with Madison,,....not the confederate states of america.
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Drone on all that you want, it's a free country, but don't look for any response from me.

I have other things to waste my precious time on.




"One hundred years from now you'll look back on all this and laugh your ass off."
 
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

shrubnose said:
Drone on all that you want, it's a free country, but don't look for any response from me.
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in other words, you have no rebuttal, because you were wrong and cant...but will act indifferent ..to save face.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
wrong, a statist is a person who believes in government,...which by your words, that is what i believe you are about since i have ever heard from you something government "cannot do",...you even believe our rights come via the government.

i my get on to you [ demonize if you like], when you assert that what i believe, would hurt, kill, starve, do damage to other people, in other words, "fear mongering"
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You do not believe in the necessity of government then? :shock: When did you convert to anarchy? :shock:

How do you like it when your own meal is served to you? :roll:
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Kal'Stang said:
The very definition of inalienable Rights and Privilege.

Dictionary.com ~ inalienable rights
Businessdictionary.com ~ inalienable rights
Mirriam-Webster ~ inalienable
US Legal ~ inalienable rights
Thefreedictionary.com ~ privlege
Mirriam-Webster ~ privilege


Need I go on? Where do you get that Rights can be taken away or given?



If you did then we wouldn't be having this conversation.



Why? You draw to conclusions based on what people say all the time. Why hold everyone else to a standard that you won't adhere to also?



How do you know he's angry?



Ascribing that the other person wants to be a bigot based on his belief that there is no right to not be discriminated against. Sure sounds like you are just dealing with what he said and not what you want it to be huh?

I could go on and on showinig posts where you have ascribed things to people that they did not say. But that you believe they meant.
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Anything in the Constitution - and that includes the Bill of Rights - can be changed via amendment.

And if you cannot deal with what I say without your own ridiculous conclusions - you are intentionally engaging in intellectual fraud.

Glad to see you admit this is about your BELIEFS and not my lack of knowledge.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AlbqOwl said:
What I advocate is the liberty to be who and what I am that does not violate the rights of others, i.e. require any unwilling contribution or participation by any other. What I advocate is an understanding that requiring involuntary servitude to another takes away our liberty and with it all our rights.
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yeah - I see the fancy lipstick but I still see the pig behind it.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann;1063212373[B said:
]in other words,
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[/B] you have no rebuttal, because you were wrong and cant...but will act indifferent ..to save face.
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IOW: If you want to waste your time posting incoherent drivel, carry on, but don't hold your breath waiting for a response from me.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
Anything in the Constitution - and that includes the Bill of Rights - can be changed via amendment.
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Then try it. ;) See how far you get. ;)
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
WOW!!! What a bunch of nonsense. Nice to know how you are speaking for 4 million slaves who you want to believe thought they had rights and freedoms when their everyday reality told them otherwise in ways you and I could never contemplate nor appreciate.
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I made no attempt to speak for any number of slaves or gays, I'm pointing out that you are diagnosing them with a mental illness. The nonsense is yours on this line of thinking.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
You do not believe in the necessity of government then? :shock: When did you convert to anarchy? :shock:

How do you like it when your own meal is served to you? :roll:
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anarchy is no government...the federal is limited to its national powers, meant to be used for the union itself,, not in the internal life's of the people.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

shrubnose said:
IOW: If you want to waste your time posting incoherent drivel, carry on, but don't hold your breath waiting for a response from me.
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you deflect with no answer to my question, after you made a statement about Madison, showing you do not understand the Constitution and its purpose.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
you deflect with no answer to my question, after you made a statement about Madison,
showing you do not understand the Constitution and its purpose.
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I totally understand that you have a lot of time to waste.

Drone on.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
yeah - I see the fancy lipstick but I still see the pig behind it.
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Hey, you're the one advocating government force be used to deny people the ability to control access to their own property. That does indeed sound rather piggish to me.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
yeah - I see the fancy lipstick but I still see the pig behind it.
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I think you need to get your eyes checked.
 
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