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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?


  • Total voters
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

LOL. Sorry doing things with the wife.



Or in other words consequences. There is a big difference between not having rights while on your property and having to risk expulsion from your property from exercising those rights. You keep saying that no one has executable right while on your property, which is an untrue statement. Even when you show you know better as you do below you go back to that same statement and collapse your whole argument. My right to free speech does not give me a right to be on your property, but neither does your property rights give you the right to silence me while on your property. For that matter, not even while I am refusing to leave, even as the cops are dragging me away. Even they are not allowed to silence me. The only real privilege I receive while on your property is the privilege on being on your property.



I think it's been made clear by several people that such is a violation of rights, regardless of what side of the discrimination line they are falling.

here again, you cut things to..... to fine a point.....

you cannot exercise a right on my property......what does this mean?...it means you cannot exercise them if i don't want you to without consequences.

speech:...you exercise you right to speech on my property, 99.9% i will not care what you say....however if you become loud, and noisy and bother other customers, i will ask you to keep it down, if you refuse, i ask you to leave, if you refuse, i call the police...you can continue to exercise speech, until the police arrive which i explain to them what has happened, and they take you out ending your free speech in my business, with you facing the consequences of your actions.

again, with force: you exercise you right to speech on my property, 99.9% i will not care what you say....however if you become loud, and noisy and bother other customers, i will ask you to keep it down, if you refuse, i ask you to leave, if you refuse, push me, then hit me, i see this as a threat from you, i then have the authority to hit you, and restrain you until police arrive....which they cuff and book you for assault on me.....during this whole time, i hit and restrain you, you are able to speak...but your speech comes to an end, when you are taken out of my place by force of law.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Due process is not force.

You can believe that, if you want.

And, the property owner doesn't haven't limitless rights.

No, property owners don't have limitless rights. Nobody's saying that.

However, you are discriminating against a particular group of property owners, and you are taking away a right that from them that all other property owners have. That is the power structure you want to impose.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Property and labor are indeed rights. A man has right to his property and his labor.

Not at the expense of all other rights. And therein lies the problem with the views of the propertytarians in this thread. They begin with the assumption that property rights are above all others and are without limit or are not subject to legislation by government. And that is the bridge too far.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Nice avoidance. Try again. Did the blacks have rights that were being violated by the law and the government pre-civil war era?

Avoidance? One could not be more clear than my answer was. Unless the government of the nation you reside in recognizes the rights you pretend to claim for yourself - YOU DO NOT HAVE THEM.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

*sigh* Here we go again.

There is no right to not be discriminated against. Such a Right would violate other peoples Rights. And as I have said repeatedly through out this thread that you supposedly read through one persons rights end where another persons rights begins. Not only does that mean that my property rights cannot violate other peoples rights it also means that this supposed "right" to not be discriminated against cannot violate my property rights. As such there is no right to be free of discrimination because it cannot be exercised without violating other peoples rights.

We as a people have decided otherwise.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

so it comes out...you who have proclaimed yourself a constitutionalists:lol:......who does not believe in right to property....thanks again for your true statist side.

Again - you make up nonsense and lamely attempt to attribute it to me in a sad attempt to distort and pervert and eventually demonize those who disagree with the propertytarian obsession.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Nobody I've read on this entire thread has advocated discrimination at least as related to how people are treated.


What you advocate is the political and legal environment which would then permit it as a natural consequence of changes in our laws.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Avoidance? One could not be more clear than my answer was. Unless the government of the nation you reside in recognizes the rights you pretend to claim for yourself - YOU DO NOT HAVE THEM.

Yeah, actually you do have them, they are just being violated.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

here again, you cut things to..... to fine a point.....

But this is what my point is. This is not cutting it to too fine a point. The distinction is very important, especially in a thread where we are talking about what rights apply and when. When you state that one cannot exercise their rights on your property and leave it at that, it is no different than telling the property owner that he cannot exercise his right of association on his own property. You mean something different, but in the end you don't say it. The true statement is that your property rights are not overridden by anyone else's rights nor are their rights overridden by your property rights.Consequences may occur from the interaction of the various rights, but the fact remains that neither set of rights override the others. Once we enter into the force area then we are no longer talking about what rights the person on the property(vice property owner) has since he is no longer acting within his rights.


Avoidance? One could not be more clear than my answer was. Unless the government of the nation you reside in recognizes the rights you pretend to claim for yourself - YOU DO NOT HAVE THEM.

So it is your assertion that rights are only the result of legislation and as such can be removed at any time(via proper legislative procedure)?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

that makes no sense....what did he not write?




He didn't write that Black people and women could be free, with the same rights that white men who owned land claimed for themselves.

Try reading the original U.S. Constitution. Very educational.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

People cannot strip rights away. Otherwise they are not Rights, but privileges.

Actually people can indeed decide what rights a society has and what they do not have. If not people - then who? Fifty foot high gods in the sky dispensing rights like candy given to trick or treaters costumed on Halloween? :shock::roll:
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Yeah, actually you do have them, they are just being violated.

If you do not have rights to exercise and they are not acknowledged by the government of your country - pretending that you have rights is a self imposed delusion indicative of mental illness and a denial of reality.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

So it is your assertion that rights are only the result of legislation and as such can be removed at any time(via proper legislative procedure)?

Rights come about because enough people in a society decide that they want a certain behavior protected by government as a right so they exert enough power or influence to get just that. It is very very simple and a matter of what the people want and what they can compel government to do.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

If you do not have rights to exercise and they are not acknowledged by the government of your country - pretending that you have rights is a self imposed delusion indicative of mental illness and a denial of reality.

I certainly hope you don't think that because slaves prior to 1865 in the US did not have rights that they weren't mentally ill by claiming any rights. After all, their rights were not acknowledged by the government of their country. Or that gays in states without the right to marry are mentally ill either for claiming the right to marry.

Claiming someone having a mental illness seems to be a very slippery slope to me. Pretty soon they are claiming it of you.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Actually people can indeed decide what rights a society has and what they do not have. If not people - then who? Fifty foot high gods in the sky dispensing rights like candy given to trick or treaters costumed on Halloween? :shock::roll:

If you do not have rights to exercise and they are not acknowledged by the government of your country - pretending that you have rights is a self imposed delusion indicative of mental illness and a denial of reality.

Rights come about because enough people in a society decide that they want a certain behavior protected by government as a right so they exert enough power or influence to get just that. It is very very simple and a matter of what the people want and what they can compel government to do.

So in your opinion no one has Rights. Just privileges that people let other people have. That explaines alot of your posts. And its a good thing SCOTUS disagrees with you.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Governments are constructs of people. I dont understand what you are driving at here.
So in your opinion no one has Rights. Just privileges that people let other people have. That explaines alot of your posts. And its a good thing SCOTUS disagrees with you.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Not at the expense of all other rights. And therein lies the problem with the views of the propertytarians in this thread. They begin with the assumption that property rights are above all others and are without limit or are not subject to legislation by government. And that is the bridge too far.

Property rights are not above all, force may be exercised in some situations depending on which rights are threatened or violated. But no one has right to another's property or labor. So what rights are being infringed?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Governments are constructs of people. I dont understand what you are driving at here.

Yes, governments are constructs of people. Rights are not. Haymarkets posts are essentially saying that no one has Rights. People only have privileges that other people can give or take away.

Rights are inalienable and exist regardless of government.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

I certainly hope you don't think that because slaves prior to 1865 in the US did not have rights that they weren't mentally ill by claiming any rights. After all, their rights were not acknowledged by the government of their country. Or that gays in states without the right to marry are mentally ill either for claiming the right to marry.

Claiming someone having a mental illness seems to be a very slippery slope to me. Pretty soon they are claiming it of you.

A self imposed delusionary state where you convince yourself you actually possess something when reality indicates that you do not is indeed a sign of mental illness.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

So in your opinion no one has Rights. Just privileges that people let other people have. That explaines alot of your posts. And its a good thing SCOTUS disagrees with you.

No - my opinion is that people have rights when enough people decide they want a certain behavior and exert power over the government to make that right happen.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Yes, governments are constructs of people. Rights are not. Haymarkets posts are essentially saying that no one has Rights. People only have privileges that other people can give or take away.

Rights are inalienable and exist regardless of government.

I have an absolute hatred .... a complete loathing .... a feeling far beyond contempt .... for people who pervert what I say telling others that "essentially" I am saying something I am not. Why is it so difficult for you to simply quote me and deal with what I said instead of playing Dr. Frankenstein and turning it into a monster version?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Property rights are not above all, force may be exercised in some situations depending on which rights are threatened or violated. But no one has right to another's property or labor. So what rights are being infringed?

We take other peoples property on a daily basis through taxation. That is part of the price all pay for living in a civilized society.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

No - my opinion is that people have rights when enough people decide they want a certain behavior and exert power over the government to make that right happen.

If it can be taken away or given then it is not a Right. If you think that it is then you have absolutely no understanding of what a Right is.

I have an absolute hatred .... a complete loathing .... a feeling far beyond contempt .... for people who pervert what I say telling others that "essentially" I am saying something I am not. Why is it so difficult for you to simply quote me and deal with what I said instead of playing Dr. Frankenstein and turning it into a monster version?

Then don't make statements that have such an obvious connection. :shrug:
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

If it can be taken away or given then it is not a Right.

Where are you getting this rule from?

If you think that it is then you have absolutely no understanding of what a Right is.

I have a perfect understanding. What I do NOT have is your belief system.

Then don't make statements that have such an obvious connection.

Baloney. Just deal with what I actually say and not what you want it to be.
 
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