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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?


  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

So what DID you mean?

My statement was for others, not you. I don't expect you to understand, and I don't care what you understand and don't.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

My statement was for others, not you. I don't expect you to understand, and I don't care what you understand and don't.

So do you think you have the right to violate the body or property of your fellow man in order to coerce him to trade with someone against his will?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ok. On one hand, a person should be able to run their business any way they want and let the free market sort it out, which is the usual argument.

On the other hand, if say a gay person lives in a predominantly religiously zealous community and they are refused service at a restaurant, the likelihood that all the restaurants in the area are holding the same discriminant mindsets are pretty high and well, quite frankly, a person shouldn't have to leave their hometown to receive any kind of service.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

This is one of the few subjects on which I disagree with many of my fellow libertarians. I think the benefit of (most) anti-discrimination laws is ultimately worth the small sacrifice of some people's liberty.

If you want to open your business to the public, that is exactly what you're going to have to do.

This is exactly why some "members-only" clubs/organizations/associations exist...exclusive membership at the exclusion of others who don't meet eligibility requirements. And if sex, race, marital status, income/education level, religion, etc., etc. are prerequisites for membership, I don't think most people would have a problem with not including those who wouldn't otherwise qualify. Of course, it's a different story when a facility that any reasonable person knows should be open to the public as you've stated and certain people are kept out, i.e., public swimming pool or a dinner on Route 66.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

The point is you are not serving them. Some people may say any person who works consumer service does serve the public. That doesn't mean you are a servant, and neither are people who have to sell lottery tickets to people on welfare. They may hate the idea but that does not make them a servant. The whole word is being so misused.

Yes, you are serving them. That's what the whole service industry is about. Serving. The name is built right in there. The difference here is whether you are serving someone willingly or unwillingly. Willingly, you are not a servant. Unwillingly and you are a servant.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Nice play on words, but no. Not being able to discriminate based on race doesn't make anyone a servent.

It's not a play on words at all. Unless you have a different definition of "servant" than I do?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

what? are you admitting government is violating the bakers right........ you dont like the Constitution at all, it it gets in your way do you.

government passes a standard of conduct.????....hmmmm. then that would also give them the power to set conduct for how we behave in our life's to.......no sleeping around, no over eating or drinking, no foul language, no porn, ......i wonder when government got authority to be a moral entity.....since it is composed of people, ...so elected leaders, are morally superior to me and the rest of the population.

your Jim crow law does not work, that was government discrimination, and it has been stated to you several times and you keep using it, because you out of ammo.

If businesses are allowed to discriminate, then the allowance of that discrimination must be backed by the force of law...which effectively makes it Jim Crow in all but name. You can deny it all you want...but that, sir, is a fact.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

If businesses are allowed to discriminate, then the allowance of that discrimination must be backed by the force of law...which effectively makes it Jim Crow in all but name. You can deny it all you want...but that, sir, is a fact.

Why must it be backed by law?

And why allow one form of discrimination against another form of discrimination?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Yes, it still does exist. But like the rest of my statement says that you apparently ignored, its not near as rampant as many would like to believe or espouse.

Are you white? If so, that's probably why you don't think it's nearly as rampant as non-whites know it to be. The fact that you don't see signs enforcing racism doesn't mean it isn't there. Live with non-whites for a while, get them to truly trust you, that they know you're on their side...and then they'll start giving example after example after example of how they are discriminated against even today.

Wait - let me guess - you're going to tell me you've got some black friends who told you this and that, right? Mm-hmm...sure.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Are you white? If so, that's probably why you don't think it's nearly as rampant as non-whites know it to be. The fact that you don't see signs enforcing racism doesn't mean it isn't there. Live with non-whites for a while, get them to truly trust you, that they know you're on their side...and then they'll start giving example after example after example of how they are discriminated against even today.

Wait - let me guess - you're going to tell me you've got some black friends who told you this and that, right? Mm-hmm...sure.



nonsense. are you white? and it works both ways
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Everyone discriminates. I don't go to rap concerts or tractor pulls. There is no right to racial discrimination but nothing stops an individual to not accept white or black friends. If you are talking about companies that serve the public the right to discriminate doesn't exist.

And everybody sometimes wants to punch the other guy in the face sometimes, too...but that doesn't make it right or acceptable to actually do it.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Are you white? If so, that's probably why you don't think it's nearly as rampant as non-whites know it to be. The fact that you don't see signs enforcing racism doesn't mean it isn't there. Live with non-whites for a while, get them to truly trust you, that they know you're on their side...and then they'll start giving example after example after example of how they are discriminated against even today.

Wait - let me guess - you're going to tell me you've got some black friends who told you this and that, right? Mm-hmm...sure.

You already think you know the answer so why should I bother? You've already made up your mind about me without knowing me in the slightest.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

And everybody sometimes wants to punch the other guy in the face sometimes, too...but that doesn't make it right or acceptable to actually do it.

Apples and oranges. He talks about doing things that discriminate but does not interfere with other peoples rights. You on the other hand talk about violating peoples rights.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Yes, you are serving them. That's what the whole service industry is about. Serving. The name is built right in there. The difference here is whether you are serving someone willingly or unwillingly. Willingly, you are not a servant. Unwillingly and you are a servant.

So, are you saying if I dislike serving a cranky person I'm suddenly a servant? I must be a slave then because I served plenty a cranky person in my life. I didn't run around telling people I was a slave though because I understood 98% of the time it had nothing to do with me just like the attributes of another person has nothing to do with me. I'm only a slave to my own prejudices and not a slave to another person wanting to do business with me.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

So, are you saying if I dislike serving a cranky person I'm suddenly a servant? I must be a slave then because I served plenty a cranky person in my life. I didn't run around telling people I was a slave though because I understood 98% of the time it had nothing to do with me just like the attributes of another person has nothing to do with me. I'm only a slave to my own prejudices and not a slave to another person wanting to do business with me.

Are you the owner of the company? If not then you are an employee. You have to do what your employer tells you do to or you can quit. You don't have a right to a job.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Do show where a person has a right to force others to provide service to them.

Really, I need to show you that people can get into legal problems if they refuse service based on someone's attributes? A quick google search can give you cases. Denny's has been in hot water for such violations before as well as several other chains.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Are you the owner of the company? If not then you are an employee. You have to do what your employer tells you do to or you can quit. You don't have a right to a job.

So, only the owner is allowed to feel like a slave?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Really, I need to show you that people can get into legal problems if they refuse service based on someone's attributes? A quick google search can give you cases. Denny's has been in hot water for such violations before as well as several other chains.

Perhaps I should have clarified again. Remember what I mentioned previously? The 13th and 14th Amendments? I'm talking about Constitutionally. Not federal law.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Perhaps I should have clarified again. Remember what I mentioned previously? The 13th and 14th Amendments? I'm talking about Constitutionally. Not federal law.

It couldn't be federal law if it was unconstitutional.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Employees are free to leave at any time with no lose of property. A business owner cannot.

A business owner can also leave at any time. He would not lose the property that was legally his.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

It couldn't be federal law if it was unconstitutional.

Actually it can be and is. Lots of things that are unconstitutional gets implemented all the time, even with SCOTUS's blessing.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

A business owner can also leave at any time. He would not lose the property that was legally his.

If he leaves his business he loses his business. Which is a part of his property.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Actually it can be and is. Lots of things that are unconstitutional gets implemented all the time, even with SCOTUS's blessing.

Yes, I agree. There are times SCOTUS has ruled incorrectly, but I disagree this is the case here.
 
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