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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

DA60 said:
So, to deny someone a service that you normally provide, strictly because of discrimination, that you believe will stop them from dying should be legal to you.

Noted.

And might I add...your attitude on this is disgusting.


Good day.
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I can't imagine the guy that runs a business a 100 miles from any potential customers can even afford to stay in business for long, let alone deny anyone service. That guy is clearly retarded for starting a business in the middle of ****ing nowhere.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

1750Texan said:
Selling property[real] and selling a product[goods and services] is not the same.

There is a differnce in selling my truck[property] on craigslist and having a car lot[property][business][rules, regulations, laws]selling cars to the public.
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No. Not really. Technically, maybe, but not in a philosophical sense. It's still a private contract between two individuals. The fact that the guy with the car lot makes private contracts with multiple individuals doesn't change the nature of the transaction.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
:dohIt's been said various times that no one is taking anything. The scenario is a merchant is selling something but wants to withhold it from someone he views as less than himself due to prejudices/discrimination. That is control.
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Yes, it is control...of private property, which is what the whole concept of private property is about. If you own it, you control it. If you don't own it, then you have to trade something of equal value (to the person who does own it) in exchange. That precisely why you won't give me your car keys. They are yours and you control them. If I want to control them, I have to get your permission...
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
There is none. No right by which any individual may do so. I've stated that. Not even the government will attempt to change anyone's behavior.
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You may want to think about that bolded part for a minute or two...
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

tres borrachos said:
Christonacracker, that list encompasses just about everyone in the country. You fall into one of those categories somewhere. I am of Irish and German descent. I would assume (if the laws are FAIR) that both of them qualify for "National Origin".

If "Religion" is a protected class, why the angst against the people whose religious beliefs tell them that sodomy is a sin (NO, I am not in that number, just thinking aloud).

Redheads should not be a protected class. Blondes, on the other hand, should. I am blonde.
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Not only that, what do we do in the event of a conflict of protected classes? Some are obviously more equal than others...
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
And you have a funny sense of liberty. Of course, I realize its just a smokescreen and by itself means anything you want it to mean.

What does a person controlling their reproductive processes have to do with being a bigot and denying other people public accommodations?
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None of this discussion is about public accommodations. It's about private accommodations, which you think some should have to make and others should not.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
Which is more important: the "right" to discriminate, or freedom from discrimination?

Remember, you can't have both. If a business refuses to serve someone because he's black, and he refuses to leave and the business calls the cops to enforce their "right".
..it is at that moment that we have government-enforced racism.
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Is that really what we want?
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Wrong. At that moment you are headed for court, where it will get sorted out.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

AGENT J said:
what are these protected classes i here so much about please list them. Then give me an example of a person who isnt in one because I cant think of any.
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Protected classes are groups of people, not individuals, and there are an infinite number of classes of people that are not protected. People named Steve, people with mullets, people with third nipples, people who live on third street...

Since rabbit hates the Sanchez's, it would be perfectly legal for him to discriminate against them as long as he doesn't discriminate against them on the basis of one of the protected class. The fact that they are in a protected class (race, religion, gender, etc) does not give them equal protection under the law if all classes are not protected. This is why I have a particular problem with the law dividing people into groups in the first place. Equal protection under the law is not even possible since there are an infinite number of groups of people.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

FederalRepublic said:
No. Not really. Technically, maybe, but not in a philosophical sense. It's still a private contract between two individuals. The fact that the guy with the car lot makes private contracts with multiple individuals doesn't change the nature of the transaction.
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The contract I was speaking of, as in the case of the car lot, is the contract the lot owner has with the city, state and feds to run his business.

The business is his property, but he agrees[contract] to run his business in accordance with the rules, regulations, laws and benefits of these entities.

He is bound[thru contract] by the rules, regulations and laws from the city, county, state and fed.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Your lawn is not public business.
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That's correct. It's a private business transaction. Draw back the curtain and let the sunshine in...:sun
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Sure there is.

It's fraud because "black free shopping" provides no real benefit. You're promoting snake oil salesmen.

It's aggression because you are limiting others' freedom of movement, business association and opportunity within the public sphere. You are attempting to create a second class citizenry. That is an act of economic war against a group and clearly aggression.
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The more I read, the more sense I make of you. Your problem is that you are speaking a different language. All of the bolded words above actually mean something other than what you think they mean. You should add racist/racism to that list and spend a little time studying what the words mean before trying to use them in sentences.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
You can do what you like on your private property...but if your property is open to the public, THEN my question applies. When you deal with the public, which right is more important - to be able to discriminate, or the freedom therefrom?

You can't have both.
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A person that owns a buisness owns the property also. As such it is still private property. Just because he/she opens it up to the public does not change that. Public property are things like parks, city hall, etc etc. Things that are government owned and that the government allows the general populace in.

I personally believe that the right to association does not stop just because you own a buisness. As such if an owner wishes to discriminate against someone because of their skin color then that is their right to do so. However it is also the right of people to decline to go to that buisness. Its an open street that goes both ways. If you cannot force people to go to a certain buisness then you cannot force buisness's to accept customers that they do not want. Personally I think that AA laws should be gotten rid of. It will show us who are the real racists and as such they can be shunned.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

FederalRepublic said:
You may want to think about that bolded part for a minute or two...
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I see your point. I should have said that the government cannot change anyone's behavior. They CAN try, but all they can do is punish a behavior, not change it.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
well!...thank you very much...its good to see you have no "DEFENSE"......for you case.

I knew, but others needed to see how weak you are in arguments over issues.
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You calling me names is hardly any defense for you advocating bigotry. You have been given very strong defenses for not allowing such discrimination over and over and over and over in this thread by many people including myself.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

FederalRepublic said:
None of this discussion is about public accommodations. It's about private accommodations, which you think some should have to make and others should not.
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Any business or service open to the public is a public accommodation.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

There is no absolute way to go on this question. It depends on the circumstance and situation.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Summerwind said:
Oh the irony of the red bolded, only adds to the irony of the blue bolded.

Ernst, regarding the red bolded, EXACTLY correct. A purchaser's liberty should not be crushed because the seller is offended.

And ernst, regarding the blue, based on what is your statement of something equivalent to it being a fact,... since everything about a person is not property, but yes a woman's body is her property as is anyone's physical body, which can be but is not usually considered akin to a product or service as being discussed here. And when a person is using their body as a product or service independent of outside pressures (ie pimps or brothels), they can refuse service to whomever they choose.
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You mean like when a business owner uses his body and mind to build a product, he has the right to refuse service to whomever they choose? That's pretty much the opposite of everything you've argued thus far on this thread.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
I don't need to reconcile it. What I stated stands on its own.
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You said that no individual has the right to force another person to do business against his will, yet you want someone to force another person to do business against his will. To me, there's something there that needs to be reconciled.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Never heard of Sam's Club? You can do that, and not provide memberships to blacks. Then you will not have to live in constant fear of a black people.
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So in your opinion it would be perfectly legal for Sam's Club to refuse service to any particular race or religion?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Rights are not created by the Constitution or the USSC.
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Remedial study of the English language. "Recognized" and "created" are not interchangeable.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
We're discussing public business. Do try to keep the topic in mind.
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No. We're discussing private business. "Private" and "public" are also not interchangeable.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Summerwind said:
And not selling to someone who is neither harming you or your business is..... I bet you've figured it out.
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...your business.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
I'm sick of people thinking they have a right to slaves. :shrug:
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No kidding. That's so 19th century. It's pathetic, really.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
No one is forcing you to open a public business.



Just not for blacks, obviously. You would like to limit their freedom of movement, business association and opportunity in the public sphere. Because you want to wage economic war against a group in attempt to create a second class citizenry. Well, too bad... one cannot wage race war in the public sphere. Keep it to your private clubs. We will not have that senseless aggression poisoning our free market.
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Nice Newspeak. Big brother will be pleased.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
I'm saying that if you want to stay away from black people, you are free to do so in the private sphere. If you open a business to the public, then the government is obligated to provide equal protection to those in the public sphere.

No one forces you to place a business in the public sphere.
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So if I simply lock the door to my store and give all the white people in the neighborhood a key, it's now a private business and perfectly ok, in your mind? That's pretty ****ed up.
 
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