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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
Indeed it is, the rights of the individual must be upheld else we lose the Republic. Grandiose use of government force against individuals not violating rights is a great way to endorse tyranny over a people.
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...but their rights are being violated when a person refuses to make a transaction with them because they deem them less worthy. That is tyranny my friend and was once done to a whole oppressed group of people throughout history.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
If you can prove a rights violation, you can argue for force. But it's a case by case basis. Just because denying emergency care would infringe upon the rights of the individual doesn't mean that being denied a cupcake does.
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Hey, I have Henrin in here who wants to deny all services including medical if he wants to.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
...but their rights are being violated when a person refuses to make a transaction with them because they deem them less worthy. That is tyranny my friend and was once done to a whole oppressed group of people throughout history.
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What rights have been violated?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Hey, I have Henrin in here who wants to deny all services including medical if he wants to.
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There may be people who make that claim, I cannot speak for everyone nor do I claim to. I speak for myself, and myself alone. This is my philosophy, my political platform, my ideals, my opinion. Everyone is free to have and profess their own, and I am not responsible for the opinions of others.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
in my mind that would depend, goes not selling them gas, cause them physical harm, put them in danger, cause lost of life?

these things have to be considered.

example: a private hospital cannot refuse service, because it could cause lost of life, harm to a person....these are part of health and safety to the public.
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Right, and protected by the 'force' of government.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Right, and protected by the 'force' of government.
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Government force is not universally unjust.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
No, public ownership would mean that the public had authority over another's property and labor and may direct it. Which is what you're advocating.

Really, you need to at least understand that which you are advocating.
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Authority should not be given to a merchant either. If one wants to sell to the public, then sell to the public. It's not at all a hard concept.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Authority should not be given to a merchant either. If one wants to sell to the public, then sell to the public. It's not at all a hard concept.
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How far are you willing to take this statement?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
They are more than free to disagree, and as I have stated before it is in the general interest of a business to do commerce. But it's still their gas. So moving goal posts doesn't really do anything here.
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ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — The U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal Monday from a studio that refused to photograph a lesbian couple's commitment ceremony, letting stand a New Mexico high court ruling that helped spur a national debate over gay rights and religious freedom.

The justices left in place a unanimous state Supreme Court ruling last year that said Elane Photography violated New Mexico's Human Rights Act by refusing to photograph the same-sex ceremony "in the same way as if it had refused to photograph a wedding between people of different races."

Tobias Barrington Wolff, a University of Pennsylvania law professor representing the couple, said "no court in the United States has ever found that a business selling commercial services to the general public has a First Amendment right to turn away customers on a discriminatory basis.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
can you explain how I am making you subservient to me.....since you came to me, your own my property, your wanting something from me....and you have the ability to walk out of by business at any time.
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You are making someone subservient simply by denying them from making a transaction. If someone runs out of gas and is willing to pay you for gas so they can make it home and you deny them based on race you have made them subservient.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
How far are you willing to take this statement?
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All the way to the SCOTUS.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Gimmesometruth said:
ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) — The U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal Monday from a studio that refused to photograph a lesbian couple's commitment ceremony, letting stand a New Mexico high court ruling that helped spur a national debate over gay rights and religious freedom.

The justices left in place a unanimous state Supreme Court ruling last year that said Elane Photography violated New Mexico's Human Rights Act by refusing to photograph the same-sex ceremony "in the same way as if it had refused to photograph a wedding between people of different races."

Tobias Barrington Wolff, a University of Pennsylvania law professor representing the couple, said "no court in the United States has ever found that a business selling commercial services to the general public has a First Amendment right to turn away customers on a discriminatory basis.
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I know what the rulings have been. But as this is still America, I am free to express my opinions and that is what I did.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
They are more than free to disagree, and as I have stated before it is in the general interest of a business to do commerce. But it's still their gas. So moving goal posts doesn't really do anything here.
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Please, I'm not moving a goal post. It was you who said that the owner of the gas station owns that gas and I said that could be disputed.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Please, I'm not moving a goal post. It was you who said that the owner of the gas station owns that gas and I said that could be disputed.
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That's not what you were disputing. What you said was that it was in their interest to sell it, which is true. But that has nothing to do with the fact that they own the gas that they bought.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
I know what the rulings have been. But as this is still America, I am free to express my opinions and that is what I did.
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Oh, no one is arguing you cannot argue a thing, I'm just pointing out that your argument is....wrong.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
Lots of people like to feel entitled to your stuff. Usually it's because they're too lazy to get their own stuff.
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That's just inane. Our society more than ever depends on the sale of goods and services for everyday survival. Very few people live off the land.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Right, and protected by the 'force' of government.
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yes, force can be used when a right is violated, or the heath and safety of the public is at risk.

feelings however are not a rights violation, or public health or safety risk.

a person cannot violate constitutional law....only governments can, a person commits a crime.

a rights violation against another person is a crime, a discrimination case is administrative law, not criminal law.

you can be ordered to serve another person by a judge, but you must be convicted of a crime...that is the only way.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Gimmesometruth said:
Oh, no one is arguing you cannot argue a thing, I'm just pointing out that your argument is....wrong.
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No, that's appeal to authority which is logical fallacy. The courts ruling on something doesn't necessarily mean that the something was just.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
That's just inane. Our society more than ever depends on the sale of goods and services for everyday survival. Very few people live off the land.
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And let me know if your survival ever comes down to a cupcake and that you have no other alternative than that one shop.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
What rights have been violated?
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I guess you don't know much about history? Look at what life was like for black people just 60 years ago. His about in Germany under the Nazi's when rights were taken away from Jews?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
You are making someone subservient simply by denying them from making a transaction. If someone runs out of gas and is willing to pay you for gas so they can make it home and you deny them based on race you have made them subservient.
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that's impossible, I cannot make them subservient, because they can walk out the door at anytime.

but you can make me subservient by using the power of government to make me serve you, or the government forces me out of business.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
I guess you don't know much about history? Look at what life was like for black people just 60 years ago. His about in Germany under the Nazi's when rights were taken away from Jews?
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Yes, the German government exercised force against the Jews, the American government used to exercise force against African Americans. But how about you tell me what rights were violated by being refused service? There are certainly specific situations where it does violate rights, but in general, what rights are violated?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
And let me know if your survival ever comes down to a cupcake and that you have no other alternative than that one shop.
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Sure, who cares when it's a cupcake. But what about when it's electricity?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Wow, glad to see it's not "all or "nothing".
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I told you long ago it wasn't. I have yet to see anyone advocate for anarchy.
 
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