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Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

FederalRepublic said:
Refer to the bold/underlined portion for the proper response to racism.
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Who stood up for Rosa Parks? Or 14-year-old Emmitt Till? Who, besides our government, stood up for the black students at the University of Alabama?

It's not enough.

Segregation Now! Segregation Tomorrow! Segregation Forever!
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
You must have missed the part about "on a societal level". You see, a white person can move and get away from any pockets of unjust discrimination against them - blacks CANNOT. That's the difference.

Of course bigotry by minorities is just as bad on an individual level, and I condemn them, but it is meaningless on a societal level.
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Your term "societal level" is defined by the sub-group, not the entirety.

Your statement that "white people can move" and "blacks cannot" is baffling to me. Especially when discussed in the context of your entire post. Could you please describe to me an accurate and realistic explanation of why and how society has prevented or restricted blacks from moving? And if your inference was that whites can move away from discrimination and blacks cannot, the truth is no one can, not just blacks. Discrimination is part of the human condition. People associate with like people. That is nature. Associating with people that are similar in likes, culture and lifestyles is discrimination and happens on more than just racial lines. Rich people live around other rich people. Doctors join the same clubs. Workers join unions and prevent senior management from joining.

Discrimination is part of the freedom to associate, on an individual level.

The only time that that individual right is limited, is when it is no longer an individual doing the discriminating. Such as business or a group that is open to the general public.

Private organizations still have the right to discriminate. For instance, a community group can discriminate against people outside the community and not allow them to join the group. A private club can discriminate against people that do not meet their membership criteria.

But to get back to the ridiculous statement that whites can move away from discrimination, that is just not accurate and is logically flawed, as I've explained.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

MaggieD said:
I had two occasions as a Realtor when clients made asses of themselves and only civil rights laws stopped them from being the dicks they most certainly were.

"Maggie, here's the thing," my client said as I was filling out the Listing Agreement on his home. "I want you to know that I'm not going to sell my home to a black. I just couldn't do that to my neighbors."

Maggie pauses, pen in hand, deliberately and ceremoniously pushing back from the kitchen table...."Frank, here's my thing. I have no intention of defending myself against a HUD lawsuit that would take everything I own and everything you owned by joining you in your intention to violate the civil rights laws of the United States of America."

What I couldn't say was what I really thought: dickhead.

Another jerk-times-five refused to sign a full-price offer because the buyers were a mixed-race couple. Well, at least not until I'd had a come-to-Jesus talk with him.

What I couldn't say was what I really thought: dickhead.

:lol: :lol:

So. If I have no sympathy for someone who wants to discriminate with the largest asset he's likely to own in his lifetime (his home), how much sympathy would I be likely to have for someone who refuses to sell a guy a ham sandwich?
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You don't have to have sympathy for someone to want their rights protected. For that matter, the world would probably be a better place if you had just called him a dickhead and he knew that's what you thought of him and why. Most people don't like being thought of that way.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
I never said I had a problem with his name. That is on you.
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But you did. You don't think they deserve equal protection under the law...hater.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

haymarket said:
I still do not get your connection between bigotry and human rights.
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People have the right to make choices in their life towards their person or property; be that, decisions on who to hang out with, who to date, who to have sex with, who to buy things from, who to sell to, what price they are willing to sell their property at, what wage they are willing to accept for work, where they will work, under what conditions they will accept to work under, who they will allow on your property, who they will provide labor, who they will associate with, etc, etc. The point is that all of those decisions are up to their discretion. Their reasons for deciding on something might not be agreeable to other people, but it is their choice to make, just as it is other peoples choice to make on how to respond to them because of it. It might not be something you can personally tolerate, but people do have the right to be assholes and refuse to do business with you for any reason they want to pick.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Because the unjust discrimination permeates society, unlike bigotry by blacks against whites.
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So that breaks their legs or something?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

MaggieD said:
Who stood up for Rosa Parks? Or 14-year-old Emmitt Till? Who, besides our government, stood up for the black students at the University of Alabama?

It's not enough.
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all governmental property is to be free of discrimination...........thats constitutional law.

private property, government has no congressional authority over........article 1 section 8 clause 17.....notes from the constitutional convention....Sept 5 1787
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
Because the unjust discrimination permeates society, unlike bigotry by blacks against whites.
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That's nonsense. I don't know a neighborhood in the Richmond Va area that is wholly white.

Also, speaking from my experience as a real estate appraiser with around 10,000 deals over the years, I don't know of a single instance of discrimination by the appraiser, the Realtor, the builder, or the lender.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

MaggieD said:
Who stood up for Rosa Parks? Or 14-year-old Emmitt Till? Who, besides our government, stood up for the black students at the University of Alabama?

It's not enough.
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Examples of people who were discriminated against by the government, but I do get your point. There is a time & place for everything. That said, we are not careful enough with our use of "desperate measures".
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

FederalRepublic said:
Examples of people who were discriminated against by the government, but I do get your point. There is a time & place for everything. That said, we are not careful enough with our use of "desperate measures".
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thanks for making that clear.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
oh, your saying i don't have a right to property ....land?

again i did not say right to have land.

i said right to property, meaning i exercise control over that property i own.

again for you, from the man who wrote the bill of rights..James Madison---In the former sense, a man's land, or merchandize, or money is called his property.
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You can't control another person from receiving something. You don't exercise control over other's liberty.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Glen Contrarian said:
One wonders if you'd feel the same if you'd lived a life where you're being the one discriminated against, where you try as hard as anyone else but can't succeed because you're being judged by what you are, instead of by the content of your character.
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I take it you didn't read my post or you read it, failed to understand and just posted a non-sequitur in response. Go back read my post again and take a little time to actually think about what I said, then try again....
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
You can't control another person from receiving something. You don't exercise control over other's liberty.
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if property is mine.....i don't have to give ,sell, or trade it to you....its mind....its my liberty to do that.

i don't control your liberty to do anything either with your property.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
if property is mine.....i don't have to give ,sell, or trade it to you....its mind....its my liberty to do that.

i don't control your liberty to do anything either with your property.
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No, what you are saying is you have a right to control another person's liberty to receive something. I do believe the natural rights of people refer to liberty more than things that you are selling. A tangible object is not an extension of one's self.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
And if your inference was that whites can move away from discrimination and blacks cannot, the truth is no one can, not just blacks. Discrimination is part of the human condition.
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It's not an inference, it's an obvious fact. Discrimination against blacks permeates society, discrimination against whites exists only in isolated pockets and events.

I cannot believe the concept is beyond you.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

jimbo said:
That's nonsense. I don't know a neighborhood in the Richmond Va area that is wholly white.
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It needn't be wholly white, it (the community) need only not be against you. One black person being a bigot against you is not the same as discrimination against you throughout society everywhere you go and everything you do.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
No, what you are saying is you have a right to control another person's liberty to receive something. I do believe the natural rights of people refer to liberty more than things that you are selling. A tangible object is not an extension of one's self.
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oh?...who are you receiving it from ...me?.......i don't have to sell ,give or trade you anything.....if you had the ability to apply force to me, to make me sell, give or trade.....that would be unlawful and defy America's founding principles,...because it would give you....... power over me

anything i create or obtain from my labor, or someone gives me...is property belonging to me........you have no rights to it.

when you deal with another person and want to engage in commerce with that person.....that person has right to association...you have no rights over him, he gives you the privilege of commerce with himself, because he wants your business, your money.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
It needn't be wholly white, it (the community) need only not be against you. One black person being a bigot against you is not the same as discrimination against you throughout society everywhere you go and everything you do.
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Even if it might be taught these days in school that blacks dealt with discrimination everywhere they went and were literally unable to live because of it, there is no truth to it. If that was the case, then the black unemployment rate before minimum wage wouldn't have been 8%. They would have literally all been jobless and homeless if your statement had any validity to it. If blacks were discriminated against everywhere they went then they couldn't have opened their own businesses and been competitive against businesses owned by whites either.
 
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Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
It's not an inference, it's an obvious fact. Discrimination against blacks permeates society, discrimination against whites exists only in isolated pockets and events.

I cannot believe the concept is beyond you.
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For your premise to hold up, ALL white people would have to be propagating this discrimination for it to permeate society as a whole. I find that unlikely at least, and unprovable at most. And for the second of your assertions to be factual, blacks would have to be isolated from society as a whole and not be allowed coexist in society which seems also unprovable.

Care to prove it for me? Factually and not anecdotally? I can agree with you that anecdotal insistence's exist on both sides, but not factual societal discrimination as was the case in 1950.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
oh?...who are you receiving it from ...me?.......i don't have to sell ,give or trade you anything.....if you had the ability to apply force to me, to make me sell, give or trade.....that would be unlawful and defy America's founding principles,...because it would give you....... power over me
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No, you withholding something because you feel you hold more power over someone, because you don't view them as an equal.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ——
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
For your premise to hold up, ALL white people would have to be propagating this discrimination for it to permeate society as a whole.
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Bullcrap.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
Fine. Prove it's bullcrap. I'm willing to change my mind. Are you?
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It's totally ridiculous for you to believe that every single white person must be a racist in order for racism to permeate society. It's stupid on its face. Just think for a minute and I'm sure the idiocy of that claim will dawn upon you.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
It's totally ridiculous for you to believe that every single white person must be a racist in order for racism to permeate society. It's stupid on its face. Just think for a minute and I'm sure the idiocy of that claim will dawn upon you.
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I don't think that, you said that.

ecofarm said:
... Discrimination against blacks permeates society, discrimination against whites exists only in isolated pockets and events.

...
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Full Definition of PERMEATE

intransitive verb

: to diffuse through or penetrate something

transitive verb

1: to spread or diffuse through <a room permeated with tobacco smoke>
2: to pass through the pores or interstices of
 
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