• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

  • Total voters
    93
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Ikari said:
Any law that doesn't protect everyone or encourages selective enforcement likely shouldn't be a law in the first place.
Click to expand...

:yt


The "like" button just isn't enough...
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
oh?......i will let you be very clear on the subject.

is there a natural right to property.....yes or no.

does government give us right to property ...yes or no...
Click to expand...

i dont think i am going to get an answer.......:(..maybe?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
They have the right to choose who they will sell property to. It doesn't matter at all that it is their home, a cake, medical treatment, or anything else you can imagine. It just doesn't. You have all the right in the world to protect yourself from the law, but that doesn't make the law right.

Just in case anyone is not paying attention Maggie just admitted that anti-discrimination laws reach into matters dealing with the home.

I wonder when someone will admit that anti-discrimination laws reach into transactions made on the street corner.
Click to expand...

Henrin. Where have you been? Civil Rights laws have covered the sale and rental of housing since the Fair Housing Act of 1968.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
oh?......i will let you be very clear on the subject.

is there a natural right to property.....yes or no.

does government gives us right to property ...yes or no...
Click to expand...

There is no natural right to property. I have to purchase it unlike the air I breathe which is a natural right. Government protects my rights to my property.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
Then quit. No one said you have to work with him.
Click to expand...

I just don't get why you hate the Sanchez's so much. What did they ever do to you?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
Explain to me how you have a right to someone else's labor and property? You do realize you're describing the right to slaves, right?
Click to expand...

But it's a "public business" and that means it's community property...
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

"The Right To Discriminate" is really "Freedom of Association".

Government needs powerful justification for discrimination (as an example, we do not allow blind people to fly fighter jets, that's a worthy justification); but private individuals should be left free to do as they wish.

Creating a "Freedom from Discrimination" is a two parter: firstly, one creates a branch of Thought Crime (your motivation or internal reasoning for acts become the focus of the prohibition rather than the acts themselves, and then one creates a Positive Right to never encounter it.

Ours is a system of Negative, rather than Positive Rights, hence "Freedom from Discrimination" belongs with "Freedom from upsetting speech" or "Freedom from religion", or any of the other Orwellian-speak that is used to justify the stripping of actual rights from others in the name of competing preferences of a politically more powerful class.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
There is no natural right to property. I have to purchase it unlike the air I breathe which is a natural right. Government protects my rights to my property.
Click to expand...

i did not state a natural right to have property, i stated a right to property.

i have a right to bear a firearm,...i don't have a right to a firearm.


from the Declaration of Independence----- WHICH IS THE FUNDAMENTAL LAW OF THE U.S. ........IT IS ALSO STATUTE LAW, U.S CODE.... BOOK 1 PAGE 1

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the........... pursuit of Happiness<-------TRANSLATES INTO PROPERTY

from the u.s. Constitution:


5th--nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property

14th--nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property.

right to property is an unalienable ,natural right....as stated by the Declaration of independence, and the u.s. Constitution.
 
Last edited:
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

14th--nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property.
Click to expand...

The state is not denying anyone his property:doh. A merchant decides if he wants to sell his property or not. He can't decide to only sell based on discrimination. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

For all those who decided the the government should step in and suppress a individuals right to be prejudiced or racists, What other freedoms are you now willing to support being taken away because you don't like them? Or have taken away from you because others don't like them? Once you take one away, you leave it open for others to also be taken away. Yes, most of us hate racism, but what other freedoms should we be willing to sacrifice because a "majority" of our fellows don't like them? How about speech? Press? Religion is already under attack from the left, so what the hell, lets sacrifice it also?

Once you set the precedent for one to be taken that you dislike, you also set the precedent for ones you might cherish to be taken also.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

mak2 said:
Government enforced racism is a blemish on the history of a great country. I hope it never returns.
Click to expand...

It's still here, Mak. Only the name has changed.

Now we call it affirmative action.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Federalist said:
Okay, so do you feel you have the right to violate the person or property of one your neighbor in order to force him to do business with someone against his will?
Click to expand...

That's too simplistic a scenario, and asking me to prove a negative. It also places the burden on both sides of the proposed business transaction.

Can you narrow to better define the circumstances in your proposed scenario? However, the actor in your proposed scenario being me as an individual is inaccurate to the topic of this thread. I would propose that you not involve the individual as the antagonist or protagonist in your question. For example, businesses are not individuals nor do they have the certain rights that individuals have. That may change depending on how the Hobby Lobby case at the SCOTUS turns out. And given that the Citizens United case came down as it did, then that distinction may not be as clear cut as it once was, although that case dealt only with the First Amendment as it pertains to monetary donations to political campaigns.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
Although I agree with your premise, your statement is not wholly true.

I myself have been discriminated against; in South Miami for not being Latino, in NYC for not being - black/Italian/Jewish/a northerner. And many other instances as well.

Discrimination has no place in our society when it comes to social interaction related to commerce or public services. Each of us has the right to freedom of association which also means non-association, but that is in our private lives, not in public interactions.

JMHO
Click to expand...

You must have missed the part about "on a societal level". You see, a white person can move and get away from any pockets of unjust discrimination against them - blacks CANNOT. That's the difference.

Of course bigotry by minorities is just as bad on an individual level, and I condemn them, but it is meaningless on a societal level.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
The state is not denying anyone his property:doh. A merchant decides if he wants to sell his property or not. He can't decide to only sell based on discrimination. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
Click to expand...

again you deflect!!!!!

you stated right to property is not a natural right........and i proved it is.........are you still going to deny it?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

cpwill said:
"The Right To Discriminate" is really "Freedom of Association".

Government needs powerful justification for discrimination (as an example, we do not allow blind people to fly fighter jets, that's a worthy justification); but private individuals should be left free to do as they wish.

Creating a "Freedom from Discrimination" is a two parter: firstly, one creates a branch of Thought Crime (your motivation or internal reasoning for acts become the focus of the prohibition rather than the acts themselves, and then one creates a Positive Right to never encounter it.

Ours is a system of Negative, rather than Positive Rights, hence "Freedom from Discrimination" belongs with "Freedom from upsetting speech" or "Freedom from religion", or any of the other Orwellian-speak that is used to justify the stripping of actual rights from others in the name of competing preferences of a politically more powerful class.
Click to expand...

The Bill of Rights is a restrictive document written in restrictive terminology; restricting the government, not the people.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ernst barkmann said:
again you deflect!!!!!

you stated right to property is not a natural right........and i proved it is.........are you still going to deny it?
Click to expand...

I said several times I was referring to physical things not intellectual property.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

MaggieD said:
Henrin. Where have you been? Civil Rights laws have covered the sale and rental of housing since the Fair Housing Act of 1968.
Click to expand...

I know. I just think it's funny when people admit anti-discrimination laws cover more than just those businesses open to the public. What makes it so funny is that those same people argue that such laws are fine because the business has a certain business license. It would seem to me that if the laws in question cover more than just businesses open to the public they can't use that defense.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

MaggieD said:
Aww, shucks. Now I can't get mad. ;) ;)

I guess I'm not concerned by what constitutional authority we have civil rights laws. I would be ashamed of my country if we still had signs on businesses that said, "Blacks not welcome here." That was a dark period in our history, in my opinion. The famous fact that Jackie Robinson couldn't stay with the rest of his team (until they stood up for him) because the team hotels wouldn't admit blacks was pretty low down. And even that we had Negro Baseball Leagues. That, during the second world war, blacks had to move off the sidewalks in the south when whites were going by...I mean, really??
Click to expand...

Refer to the bold/underlined portion for the proper response to racism.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

ecofarm said:
You must have missed the part about "on a societal level". You see, a white person can move and get away from any pockets of unjust discrimination against them - blacks CANNOT. That's the difference.

Of course bigotry by minorities is just as bad on an individual level, and I condemn them, but it is meaningless on a societal level.
Click to expand...

Why can't blacks move?
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

rabbitcaebannog said:
I said several times I was referring to physical things not intellectual property.
Click to expand...

oh, your saying i don't have a right to property ....land?

again i did not say right to have land.

i said right to property, meaning i exercise control over that property i own.

again for you, from the man who wrote the bill of rights..James Madison---In the former sense, a man's land, or merchandize, or money is called his property.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
I know. I just think it's funny when people admit anti-discrimination laws cover more than just those businesses open to the public when those same people argue that such laws are fine because the business has a certain business license. It would seem to me that if the laws in question cover more than just businesses open to the public they can't use that defense.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. Well, I've never used the business license argument. I get what you're saying, though.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Henrin said:
Every last right you will find is your property and they are all yours to do with as you please. All rights are based on body sovereignty and extend to everything in which the body acts upon. Therefore, all your rights, be that, the right to life, liberty, or estate, are born from property, or more to the point, the right to your own body and it's facilities. With this knowledge of your ownership of your person you will discover, as I have said, that if we were to go down the list of rights that all of them give you complete control and all of them are discriminatory in nature; in that, no one can act upon your person or property without your permission.

The fact is discrimination is an essential part of human rights and has to be protected to protect human rights. You just live in this world where somehow acting on the person or property of another is justified because they are practicing their rights in a way you don't like. It's kind of stupid, imho.
Click to expand...

I still do not get your connection between bigotry and human rights.
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

Beaudreaux said:
The Bill of Rights is a restrictive document written in restrictive terminology; restricting the government, not the people.
Click to expand...

100% correct!....:applaud
 
Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

jimbo said:
Why can't blacks move?
Click to expand...

Because the unjust discrimination permeates society, unlike bigotry by blacks against whites.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom