View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #831
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    So, you're saying making a transaction with someone whose race you may not like is like slavery?
    If I'm forced into that transaction, yes, it's like slavery.

  2. #832
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    If private clubs have a right to discriminate, why are they getting sued to let person x in or person y in?
    I do not know of a completely private club getting successfully sued for not letting someone in. AFAIK the discrimination suits against private clubs that have been successful won in court because the club was a recipient of government contracts or privileges.

  3. #833
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Notice how business and consumers is not included as parties that the congress can regulate commerce among? They can keep trade regular between states, but that has nothing to do with business or their customers.
    Tell that to the SCOTUS. Maybe they'll take your interpretation and change all the laws. Even when I disagree with the SCOTUS, and I do at times, I know that they are the final word on what is and isn't Constitutional. Not me, not you, and not anyone else. When a question arises, a case is brought before them. Again, maybe that's what you should do.

    And as to the statement made earlier about the states not having the power to regulate business, have you looked at all the state statutes regarding regulations regarding commerce? If they don't have the power to do so, why have no cases been brought before the several state's Supreme Courts or the SCOTUS to rule as such?

    I see your argument. The problem is that it just doesn't hold up to true scrutiny under the US Constitution, the Constitutions of the several states and of the laws of the Union, the states and the municipalities within the states.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  4. #834
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Tell that to the SCOTUS. Maybe they'll take your interpretation and change all the laws. Even when I disagree with the SCOTUS, and I do at times, I know that they are the final word on what is and isn't Constitutional. Not me, not you, and not anyone else. When a question arises, a case is brought before them. Again, maybe that's what you should do.

    And as to the statement made earlier about the states not having the power to regulate business, have you looked at all the state statutes regarding regulations regarding commerce? If they don't have the power to do so, why have no cases been brought before the several state's Supreme Courts or the SCOTUS to rule as such?

    I see your argument. The problem is that it just doesn't hold up to true scrutiny under the US Constitution, the Constitutions of the several states and of the laws of the Union, the states and the municipalities within the states.
    The intent of the commerce clause was to handle trade disputes among the listed parties. It was not to grant the government the power to control business operations and force into labor businesses to meet the requirements of whatever regulation the congress decides it wants to pass. Even if we go with the modern definition of the word regulate, that would grant the government the power to control whatever they are regulating, there is still the issue of business not being listed as a party they can regulate. What actually happened is that the Supreme Court first used the modern definition of the word regulate and then added all the people of the nation under the commerce clause, when in reality, it was not a power to act on any of the citizens of the country and the word regulate meant to keep regular or in working order.

    I will openly challenge any Supreme Court justice on the matter if given the chance, but I won't waste my time dealing with them in the court room.

  5. #835
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if you not your own property, then who do you belong to?...you are physical matter....do you just float in space, and exist and thats all?

    rights are an absolute, FOR THE PEOPLE AT LARGE.

    rights of a single individual can be curtailed, if that person commits a crime, or violates health or safety.

    the bigot line, is nothing more than a poor rebuttal, ...to something to don't like......laws cannot be CREATED ON AN EMOTIONAL BASIS.
    Its the same song with different words - but the old line segregationists were far more honest with their views half a century ago. Not all this BS about property and you own yourself and all sort of nonsense and pure BS designed to do the same thing - allow bigotry.

    When you guys on the far right scream against people with emotions it boggles the mind to think of the right wing like lobotomized Mr. Spocks completely devoid of any human feeling. I guess that explains so many of your issue positins as the consideration for the problems and situations of real people never into your theory and abstract BS.
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  6. #836
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The intent of the commerce clause was to handle trade disputes among the listed parties. It was not to grant the government the power to control business operations and force into labor businesses to meet the requirements of whatever regulation the congress decides it wants to pass. Even if we go with the modern definition of the word regulate, that would grant the government the power to control whatever they are regulating, there is still the issue of business not being listed as a party they can regulate. What actually happened is that the Supreme Court first used the modern definition of the word regulate and then added all the people of the nation under the commerce clause, when in reality, it was not a power to act on any of the citizens of the country and the word regulate meant to keep regular or in working order.

    I will openly challenge any Supreme Court justice on the matter if given the chance, but I won't waste my time dealing with them in the court room.
    Commerce and businesses go hand in hand. Anyone involved in commerce is acting as a business. Either as a separate entity or as a DBA.

    I understand the Commerce clause. That was not the sole law I discussed, but rather one of many.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  7. #837
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Commerce and businesses go hand in hand. Anyone involved in commerce is acting as a business. Either as a separate entity or as a DBA.
    Even if we change the word commerce to business my statement on the issue holds true as it would still only be talking about trade among the listed parties.

  8. #838
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Even if we change the word commerce to business my statement on the issue holds true as it would still only be talking about trade among the listed parties.
    Agreed. Never said it didn't. The states and the municipalities take over from there. And, then there's the Equal Protection Clause that also gives Congress certain powers to enact laws regarding discrimination, to mention just one, as well.

    This subject is not just dealt with under a singular viewpoint of commerce.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  9. #839
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Its the same song with different words - but the old line segregationists were far more honest with their views half a century ago. Not all this BS about property and you own yourself and all sort of nonsense and pure BS designed to do the same thing - allow bigotry.
    When the CRA was being debated there was an entire faction making the same arguments you're seeing here.

  10. #840
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Agreed. Never said it didn't. The states and the municipalities take over from there. And, then there's the Equal Protection Clause that also gives Congress certain powers to enact laws regarding discrimination, to mention just one, as well.

    The states never granted themselves the power to regulate business either and I fail to see how the equal protection clause gives the government the power to regulate business. The amendment deals with states, not business.

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