View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #51
    Angry Former GOP Voter
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That would only apply to government discrimination. Since libertarians don't support public education I thought it would have been obvious I was referring to private discrimination.
    Well, it's a great thing you're wrong, now ain't it?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #52
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Due process, Equal protection.
    normally isn't that something that has to be caused by state action?

    If you get kicked off this website you cannot claim a first amendment violation



  3. #53
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Name me a right that isn't dependent on discrimination. Have fun with that.
    and so you would go down the metaphorical trail of hypothetical twists and turns of what you feel to be logic. However, in the REAL world, you either allow discrimination against others...or you don't.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #54
    Sage
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I voted that freedom from discrimination is more important but that does not mean that no discrimination (selectivity) may be done. The problem with many anti-discrimination laws is that they assume that if service was denied to a "protected class" member that it was because the person was a member of that class. I should be free to refuse service to anyone and not have to prove my innocence - the complete burden of proof should lie with the one alleging discrimination.
    I quite agree. Having nearly lost my career due to a false accusation, I've learned to not be so quick to judge...and to demand proof of accusation.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #55
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    And that's not how the law is enforced. To use an easy example, if you refuse to do business with someone who walks through your door because they're Jewish? You've violated the law . . . whether he owns a slaughterhouse or not.
    But that is the problem; the businessman says the reason was the slaughterhouse (work location/scope), the denied customer says the reason was personal (their religion). Who, if either, should the state believe (and why)?
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #56
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    and so you would go down the metaphorical trail of hypothetical twists and turns of what you feel to be logic. However, in the REAL world, you either allow discrimination against others...or you don't.
    Most of us are not in a position to 'allow' what others do. I choose a government that has less power rather than more. if one of the distasteful byproducts of limiting the power of government is that some private businesses engage in silly discrimination, that is still better than giving government the power to "stop" such activities. and in a competitive environment-making unsound business decisions will cost the decision maker



  7. #57
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'm not an "it's all or nothing" girl. I think that makes it too broad. And the answer to the question "should you legally be allowed to tell someone you won't do business with them (in your open-to-the-public business) because they're black", the answer is "absolutely not". But at the same time, I can't agree with forcing people to enter into commerce with everyone whether they want to or not, just to prevent that from happening.
    If you are open to the public, sure, you can deny someone if you can reasonably show why that person was not someone with which you should do business i.e. they don't have money, they have a history of fraud, you have a not-so-nice personal history with that person, and so forth. You're refusing service on the basis of what that person has done or has failed to do. Of course you have the right to refuse service in occasions like that!

    But refusing to do business due to race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation...that's more what my question is about.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  8. #58
    global liberation

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    What if I did other slaughterhouses, and decided I didn't want to do them anymore? And the first time I decided it the owner happened to be black.

    I'm not saying I'm right, ecofarm. I'm saying it's something I consider when considering everything that pertains to commerce.
    The threat to society of a wrongful claim does not negate the need for legislation.

  9. #59
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Most of us are not in a position to 'allow' what others do. I choose a government that has less power rather than more.
    Your vote is your voice...but as long as you're living on our American oligarchy-masquerading-as-representative-democracy soil, your rights are defined by the laws passed by the government thereof.[/QUOTE]
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  10. #60
    global liberation

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    But that is the problem; the businessman says the reason was the slaughterhouse (work location/scope), the denied customer says the reason was personal (their religion). Who, if either, should the state believe (and why)?
    The state believes the defense unless there is convincing evidence. You have some idea of how the court system works, right? Pretending to have no idea how courts work is not a defense for crying 'sky falling'.

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