View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #501
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    People have the right to make choices in their life towards their person or property; be that, decisions on who to hang out with, who to date, who to have sex with, who to buy things from, who to sell to, what price they are willing to sell their property at, what wage they are willing to accept for work, where they will work, under what conditions they will accept to work under, who they will allow on your property, who they will provide labor, who they will associate with, etc, etc. The point is that all of those decisions are up to their discretion. Their reasons for deciding on something might not be agreeable to other people, but it is their choice to make, just as it is other peoples choice to make on how to respond to them because of it. It might not be something you can personally tolerate, but people do have the right to be assholes and refuse to do business with you for any reason they want to pick.
    I should have smelt it. All this fancy double talk about bodily sovereignty is just another way of saying you if want to be a bigot you can do so.

    Sorry - it is spring and I do need fertilizer for the gardens but not buying this particular cartload of manure.
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  2. #502
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Which is more important: the "right" to discriminate, or freedom from discrimination?

    Remember, you can't have both. If a business refuses to serve someone because he's black, and he refuses to leave and the business calls the cops to enforce their "right"...it is at that moment that we have government-enforced racism.

    Is that really what we want?
    By that logic, short of calling for violence we have government enforced hate speech, since cops could be called in to enforce someone's right to free speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Government enforced racism is a blemish on the history of a great country. I hope it never returns.
    Government enforced freedom, even if it results in racism by an individual, is never a blight upon our country. Government mandated racism, however, is. There is a major difference.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  3. #503
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Why does one being more important mean that the other isn't important, I don't get the intended absoluteness of the question.

  4. #504
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Prove a negative? I'm not asking you to prove anything at all. I'm asking about your opinion regarding what rights you consider yourself having when dealing with your fellow man.
    Not a problem. As an individual, I have the right to exercise my rights to the point and extent that they do not harm others. We as a people have enacted laws to both give guidance as to where one ends and the other begins as well as prescribe penalties for such infringement. Both criminal and civil law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    It's a general question, but I'll paint a hypothetical scenario for you. A sole proprietor (one individual) contract software developer places a notice on his website that he will not do business with any redheaded customers.

    Do you feel as if you have the right to violate the person or property of this individual in order to coerce him into doing business with redheads?
    As an individual, the only action I can take is to not do business with the individual, or choose to overlook this fact and do business with them anyway. It would depend if I felt that the person choosing to refuse to do business with redheads was against my moral and ethical standards.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  5. #505
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I should have smelt it. All this fancy double talk about bodily sovereignty is just another way of saying you if want to be a bigot you can do so.

    Sorry - it is spring and I do need fertilizer for the gardens but not buying this particular cartload of manure.
    Oh no not the "F" word......Freedom! What a horrid idea!
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  6. #506
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The problem with that concept is, it doesn't work. It simply. does. not. work.

    Why? Business A says "no blacks"...so no blacks (and a significant amount of whites) don't go in there...but enough whites who are either racist or somehow want to defend their brand of libertarianism go in there to keep it afloat. This WOULD happen in the Deep South, because there's more than enough white racists (like those in my own family) who would keep that business afloat.

    So racist Business A stays afloat. The blacks get ticked off and open racist Business B that says "no whites". All of a sudden more whites go to whites-only...and more blacks go to blacks-only...and it spirals downhill from there. And we're back to a capitalistic form of Jim Crow.

    Not only that, but black person C decides he's going to refuse to leave racist Business A...and so racist Business A calls the cops who wind up forcibly removing black person C...and all of a sudden we have not only government-ENFORCED racism, but race riots just like those we had in the 1960's...except for now the blacks have a LOT more guns than they did then.

    Is that really, truly where you want to go? You can dream all day about how you think it OUGHTA be...but there's a big difference between the way things oughta be...and the way things would be.
    I love the whole "white people in the deep south are racist" meme there. Got any proof that all of them are? Or that only "white people" in the deep south are prejudiced?

    Also, very progressive of you to point out the reason for the racist reaction of Business B, but you don't even consider the possibility that business A might also have a reason.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    As an individual, the only action I can take is to not do business with the individual, or choose to overlook this fact and do business with them anyway. It would depend if I felt that the person choosing to refuse to do business with redheads was against my moral and ethical standards.
    And why are these the only two actions you feel you have a right to take? Why do you not feel you have the right to violate his body or property in order to coerce him into doing business with redheads?

  8. #508
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    So you're saying that if I have a piece of property that I want to sell to a particular person, you have the right to demand that I sell it to you instead? You believe that?

    Selling property[real] and selling a product[goods and services] is not the same.

    There is a differnce in selling my truck[property] on craigslist and having a car lot[property][business][rules, regulations, laws]selling cars to the public.


  9. #509
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And why are these the only two actions you feel you have a right to take? Why do you not feel you have the right to violate his body or property in order to coerce him into doing business with redheads?
    Why are you asking these personal questions of me?
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

  10. #510
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Why are you asking these personal questions of me?
    I'm trying to understand why you feel that certain individuals in society are ethically justified in violating the person or property of a person in order to coerce him into doing business with someone he doesn't want to.

    So why are these the only two actions you feel you have a right to take? Why do you not feel you have the right to violate his body or property in order to coerce him into doing business with redheads?

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