View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #41
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    But it is to me.

    I could say I'm declining the job because I don't believe in slaughterhouses. But it could be because I don't want to work with a black person. How would you know either way?
    Again, the burden of proof is on the accuser.

    Thing is, should we give the stamp of legitimacy to discrimination? Or should we give the stamp of legitimacy to freedom from discrimination?

    Remember, men's-only voting had the stamp of legitimacy for almost half of America's history so far. Once women's suffrage was given the stamp of legitimacy, a lot of people (almost all men) didn't like it...but look how that particular stamp of legitimacy has changed our society. How many out there would even think of restricting a woman's right to vote?

    So it goes with laws either allowing or disallowing discrimination. The longer the laws are on the books, the more the society adapts to and accepts those laws...and they become a part of the social fabric.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  2. #42
    global liberation

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Name me a right that isn't dependent on discrimination. Have fun with that.
    Have fun with what, the inability to differentiate between just and unjust discrimination? That intellectual fail got boring a while ago.

  3. #43
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I wouldn't have been educated, I wouldn't have been able to have competitive employment opportunities, and should the first two have occurred I may have even been denied housing.

    When I know that was a reality not long ago (and still is an issue now), libertarians can stuff it with their "rights."
    Well said!
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #44
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The fact that he'd have to prove you discriminated based on race and when your defense introduced the fact that he owns a slaughterhouse, and your business does not do slaughterhouses for anyone, he'd have to pay your attorney.




    No, you're turning the court system upside down to object to rational policy.
    What if I did other slaughterhouses, and decided I didn't want to do them anymore? And the first time I decided it the owner happened to be black.

    I'm not saying I'm right, ecofarm. I'm saying it's something I consider when considering everything that pertains to commerce.

  5. #45
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Have fun with what, the inability to differentiate between just and unjust discrimination? That intellectual fail got boring a while ago.
    The best part about you positive right people is that you know deep down your arguments are bull****.

  6. #46
    Angry Former GOP Voter
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So if all of that came true, which one of your rights would have been violated?
    Due process, Equal protection.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #47
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    But really I don't think that's racism per se. You're making your decision based on what you believe to be the relative safety of an area where you're working.

    My question is more about whether the right to discriminate due to race/ethnicity/religion/sexual orientation is more important than the freedom from such discrimination.
    I voted that freedom from discrimination is more important but that does not mean that no discrimination (selectivity) may be done. The problem with many anti-discrimination laws is that they assume that if service was denied to a "protected class" member that it was because the person was a member of that class. I should be free to refuse service to anyone and not have to prove my innocence - the complete burden of proof should lie with the one alleging discrimination.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #48
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Freedom of association is very important. I definitely feel that discrimination in hiring should be illegal, but if someone is stupid enough to turn away paying customers, I'm not so sure that that should be illegal.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  9. #49
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Due process, Equal protection.
    That would only apply to government discrimination. Since libertarians don't support public education I thought it would have been obvious I was referring to private discrimination.

  10. #50
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The burden of proof's on the accuser, not the accused. The more salient point is, should you legally be allowed to tell someone you won't do business with them (in your open-to-the-public business) because they're black? Because if it's legal, then it becomes enforceable by law...at which point we have government-enforced racism.

    We've already been down that slippery slope...and that's where most of mankind stayed for most of recorded history. It's only within the past couple hundred years or so that the developed world began moving away from slavery.
    I'm not an "it's all or nothing" girl. I think that makes it too broad. And the answer to the question "should you legally be allowed to tell someone you won't do business with them (in your open-to-the-public business) because they're black", the answer is "absolutely not". But at the same time, I can't agree with forcing people to enter into commerce with everyone whether they want to or not, just to prevent that from happening.

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