View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #21
    Sage


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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Your argument is invalid if the license you're holding them to is a right violation itself. Since making people get approval from the state to practice their rights is clearly a right violation, you're argument is invalid. There is of course no right violation by refusing to do business with someone, so I'm not sure how your argument here applies.
    Well, hopefully, others understood my post. I think it applies just fine. You want to argue whether or not it's a rights violation to have to license your business? And whether or not laws can be enforced inside a licensed business that's so-licensed in violation (you think) of your rights? Start a thread.

  2. #22
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    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The right to property, labor, and association is more important than some idiotic idea that you have the right to force other people to do your bidding.
    You can do what you like on your private property...but if your property is open to the public, THEN my question applies. When you deal with the public, which right is more important - to be able to discriminate, or the freedom therefrom?

    You can't have both.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #23
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You should be able to decline work regardless of the reason. Just because you have a business doesn't mean you are obligated to engage in commerce with whoever wants to do business with you.

    If I own a professional cleaning service, and someone tries to hire me to clean a slaughterhouse, I wouldn't take the job, nor should I be forced to.

    I agree people shouldn't be discriminated against, but I also disagree with the concept that you HAVE to accept an offer of commerce with someone because it may offend the other person. Once that becomes the rule, talk about a slippery slope.....
    I disagree. If my business is retail selling (at a fixed location) then, while I may limit quantities so as not to run out of goods, I may not refuse to sell an item to one person in favor of another. Your example, as was mine, was refusing a type of work (or an unsafe worksite) but not refusing service based on the customer's race, gender, ethnicity or religion.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #24
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    And that's not how the law is enforced. To use an easy example, if you refuse to do business with someone who walks through your door because they're Jewish? You've violated the law . . . whether he owns a slaughterhouse or not.
    But what if the slaughterhouse owner was black, Maggie. If I as a white woman said "no thanks", what's to stop someone from assuming I'm a raicst? That is the slippery slope too.

  5. #25
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    pbrauer's Avatar
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No. It is at that point that we have a government-enforced right not to be discriminated against.

    If you are serving the public, you do not have (and should not have) the right to discriminate. What you do in your home, on the sidewalk, in your car, at establishments other than your own public business/organization is completely up to you. Choose to associate, not to associate, to call names, to defend . . . whatever. But when you have a business or organization that serves the public? Your right to discriminate in your business or organization is over-ridden by my right not to be discriminated against.
    Hear, hear


  6. #26
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    By idiots that don't understand the core principles of libertarianism perhaps.
    If those "core principles" allow the "freedom to discriminate", then the label of "tolerates racists" is well-earned.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #27
    global liberation

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You should be able to decline work regardless of the reason. Just because you have a business doesn't mean you are obligated to engage in commerce with whoever wants to do business with you.

    If I own a professional cleaning service, and someone tries to hire me to clean a slaughterhouse, I wouldn't take the job, nor should I be forced to.

    I agree people shouldn't be discriminated against, but I also disagree with the concept that you HAVE to accept an offer of commerce with someone because it may offend the other person. Once that becomes the rule, talk about a slippery slope.....
    One must be capable of discerning just (legal) discrimination and that which is not.

  8. #28
    Kinky
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I disagree. If my business is retail selling (at a fixed location) then, while I may limit quantities so as not to run out of goods, I may not refuse to sell an item to one person in favor of another. Your example, as was mine, was refusing a type of work (or an unsafe worksite) but not refusing service based on the customer's race, gender, ethnicity or religion.
    See my post to Maggie below. What would stop the owner from saying I refused to clean his slaughterhouse because he's black and not because I don't want to do it.

    I can't support the concept of having to enter into commerce with everyone because some people are racist. That to me is turning commerce upside down to protect a few and because of the actions of a few.

  9. #29
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    One must be capable of discerning just (legal) discrimination and that which is not.
    How does one prove that in a court of law?

  10. #30
    global liberation

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    But what if the slaughterhouse owner was black, Maggie. If I as a white woman said "no thanks", what's to stop someone from assuming I'm a raicst? That is the slippery slope too.
    It's not a slippery slope.

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