View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #2271
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That is by choice.

  2. #2272
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    No. That's not what I'm arguing. Having the state defend my right to choose my spouse (even if I only consider spouses of the same race) is not state enforced racism. Don't fall in a semantic trap and give up the meaning of words.
    The semantic trap is the one that rabbit is trying to use, by equating enforced with mandated and/or approved. I really doubt that the state approves of the actions of WBC, but as long as they are staying within their rights the state must enforce all of their hate driven speech and actions. It's state enforce hate.
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  3. #2273
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    The semantic trap is the one that rabbit is trying to use, by equating enforced with mandated and/or approved. I really doubt that the state approves of the actions of WBC, but as long as they are staying within their rights the state must enforce all of their hate driven speech and actions. It's state enforce hate.
    No. The state is not enforcing the hate speech of the WBC. Protecting someone's freedom of speech is not an endorcement (nor enforcement) of anything they might be saying. It's an enforcement of their natural right to speak their mind.

  4. #2274
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Which is more important: the "right" to discriminate, or freedom from discrimination?

    Remember, you can't have both...
    That's absurd. Having the right to discriminate in general (i.e. the right to refuse service) is not equivalent to the right to engage in racial discrimination (or other discrimination prohibited by law). Equating the two is just dishonest.

  5. #2275
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by gungadin View Post
    That's absurd. Having the right to discriminate in general (i.e. the right to refuse service) is not equivalent to the right to engage in racial discrimination (or other discrimination prohibited by law). Equating the two is just dishonest.
    How so?
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  6. #2276
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    No. The state is not enforcing the hate speech of the WBC. Protecting someone's freedom of speech is not an endorcement (nor enforcement) of anything they might be saying. It's an enforcement of their natural right to speak their mind.
    I agree that the primary task and goal is the defense and enforcement of the discriminating individual's rights, which causes as a natural result the defense and enforcement of actions and speech that are socially improper. These are actions and speech that should never be illegal because to do so would indeed violate freedoms and rights. Endorsement and enforcement are not the same. Thus we can enforce the right to something (discrimination, albeit indirectly) without endorsing it.
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  7. #2277
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    How so?
    Discrimination is what I do when I choose to date someone who's smart instead of dumb, attractive instead of ugly. I'm also discriminating when I refuse service to someone who's being an asshole. The company I work for is discriminating when they choose to hire (or fire) someone based on their personality. Not all discrimination is wrong, or illegal.

  8. #2278
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by gungadin View Post
    Discrimination is what I do when I choose to date someone who's smart instead of dumb, attractive instead of ugly. I'm also discriminating when I refuse service to someone who's being an asshole. The company I work for is discriminating when they choose to hire (or fire) someone based on their personality. Not all discrimination is wrong, or illegal.
    No discrimination or any action for that matter is illegal until it is written into law as such. To use the existence of something in law as the support of it being law is simply circular reasoning. There are only two types of discrimination that I can think of that should be allowed the government; citizen vs non-citizen; and ability to consent (usually accomplished by arbitrary age laws). Otherwise the government should have NO laws rules or anything else that even references age, gender. orientation, race, etc. Maybe census numbers but that's about it. Individual citizens, however, are not of the people, by the people and for the people. This is why they have rights that the government is required to protect, even if the actions performed under those rights are disgusting and repulsive on a social level.
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  9. #2279
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by gungadin View Post
    Discrimination is what I do when I choose to date someone who's smart instead of dumb, attractive instead of ugly. I'm also discriminating when I refuse service to someone who's being an asshole. The company I work for is discriminating when they choose to hire (or fire) someone based on their personality. Not all discrimination is wrong, or illegal.
    But your comparison fails in that in your examples above, you're discriminating against individuals due to something about that particular individual...and that's a far cry from discriminating against someone because of the color of the skin that they were born with.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    But your comparison fails in that in your examples above, you're discriminating against individuals due to something about that particular individual...and that's a far cry from discriminating against someone because of the color of the skin that they were born with.
    That was really my point in post #2274. They are different, and should not be treated as the same. The term "discrimination" also describes many perfectly acceptable acts.

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