View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #2211
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Can you present to us an example of a first rate world power in the 21st century who operates without a system of compulsory taxation?
    For clarity's sake, please define compulsory tax within the context that you are using it, along with an example of a non-compulsory tax. I want to think we are thinking along the same lines, but I want to be sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Huh? Dude, you're making zero sense in that paragraph. A doctor who refuses to medically treat someone because of his or her race in a town where he's the only doctor. YOUR opinion - and the opinion of so many on the Right, apparently - are that this is okay, no big deal. There can be no comparison of that kind of situation with the rest of your, um, examples.
    One of the counter-aruguments that has been used against the argument "they are still free to seek {goods/service} from someone else offering said {goods/service}" is "what if that is the only {goods/service} provider in town?" The doctor has been the most popular example of said argument/counter-argument. My question is, what is the difference between a goods/service provider who is the only game in town discriminating on any given basis, and one who shuts down so as not to have to serve those whom he doesn't want to? It's a very simple question.



    Businesses that are open to the public are for the most part NOT currently free to discriminate, except for those states which still have anti-gay laws. If the Right had its way, we would all be free to discriminate...which would give legitimacy to racism...and as soon as racists began refusing to serve people because of their color, people of that color would protest and the state would send police to protect the racist's "right" to discriminate...and THAT is the beginning of state-protected racism.

    You y'all can't see that is beyond explanation.
    What is that?!?

    Anyway, if the person who is running a business is saying that no X allowed or only X allowed, then I guess they really aren't open to the public. Not that it stops anyone from saying that they are open to the public and thus are not allowed. That would probably have to be the most basic false premise of the whole argument that businesses don't have the right to discriminate. Business are not open to the public. They are open to whomever the business owner wishes to do business with. That is part and parcel of private property rights and freedom of association.

    As to state protected racism, yeah it's a sad by product of actually protecting rights, but that's fine by me. State mandated racism however, is completely off the table. That is also a violation of private property rights and freedom of association. The problem is that most people who want to violate rights for actions that they don't like is that they can't seem to separate the concepts of the state requiring something and the state protecting rights even when it's an objectionable action that is being protected.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    If a person is not following the rules of a place of business fine, anything else is over the top and a bit on the nutty side.
    The rules of a place of business is what the business owner decides they are. Real simple concept.
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  2. #2212
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    AA is a symptom of the problem. 6 months ago or probably less I would have argued although AA is repugnant and should go away as soon as possible and that I was not convinced it was necessary at that time, but would rather err on the side of helping deserving people get into school. I had truly believed most of the racist left were on conservative internet sites and storm front and hung out in dark little bars. But in the last 6 months the racism in many threads on this forum and stories like Bundy and Fox making him main stream, and the steadfast defense...anyway, I am afraid AA might be necessary for a long time to come, until everyone at least realized what the real problem is. It aint AA.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's going on today... what the hell do you mean never returns? It's codified.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Oh, your (general you) right to be a bigot is a 'natural right' compared to their right to be of a different race, creed, religion etc....is that not a 'natural' right?
    Can't keep up with this damn thread, but....

    No. You have a natural right to choose who you associate (or do not associate) with. Your right not to associate with people named Sanchez has no bearing on the natural rights of anyone named Sanchez unless/until you use force to deprive them of something that is rightfully theirs. Your property is not their property. This isn't a commune. I still don't know what you have against the Sanchezes, but it's your right. Maybe some day you'll learn it's better to treat people fairly.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    If businesses are allowed to discriminate, then the allowance of that discrimination must be backed by the force of law...which effectively makes it Jim Crow in all but name. You can deny it all you want...but that, sir, is a fact.
    The allowance of free will is generally backed by the force of law in a free society. Jim Crow laws prevented free association by the force of law, so, no. Pretty much the opposite of everything you said is true.

  5. #2215
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    The allowance of free will is generally backed by the force of law in a free society. Jim Crow laws prevented free association by the force of law, so, no. Pretty much the opposite of everything you said is true.
    I have been saying this for so long. I'm glad to see someone else gets it, and isn't afraid to put it out.

    Wow those two were pretty far back. You only now saw them?
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  6. #2216
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    One of the counter-aruguments that has been used against the argument "they are still free to seek {goods/service} from someone else offering said {goods/service}" is "what if that is the only {goods/service} provider in town?" The doctor has been the most popular example of said argument/counter-argument. My question is, what is the difference between a goods/service provider who is the only game in town discriminating on any given basis, and one who shuts down so as not to have to serve those whom he doesn't want to? It's a very simple question.
    That's a bogus comparison. Someone can shut down their business for any reason under the sun if they want to - because by doing so, they're not discriminating against anyone.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    That's a bogus comparison. Someone can shut down their business for any reason under the sun if they want to - because by doing so, they're not discriminating against anyone.
    But the poor people who can no longer have a doctor! And what if the doctor shuts down so that he doesn't have to serve white people? That's discrimination. Shouldn't that be illegal?
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  8. #2218
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    The allowance of free will is generally backed by the force of law in a free society. Jim Crow laws prevented free association by the force of law, so, no. Pretty much the opposite of everything you said is true.
    Wrong...because as soon as the racist business owner calls up the cops to enforce his no-blacks-allowed store policy, and the cops are forced by law to remove those blacks, we suddenly have state-enforced racism.

    Which was once known as Jim Crow.

    Sure, it's not quite the same...but the moment this starts, you're going to see violence across America like nothing we've seen in our lifetimes. Why? Blacks have had a taste of equality, and they're not going to give it up...and they're armed, too.

    Is that the kind of future you want for America? Is it really?
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #2219
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    But the poor people who can no longer have a doctor! And what if the doctor shuts down so that he doesn't have to serve white people? That's discrimination. Shouldn't that be illegal?
    It can't be discrimination because his action affects all his customers, not just one or two or one certain segment thereof.

    For instance, I once owned a used clothing store in that same one-doctor town I keep talking about. ALL my customers - most (but not all) of whom were black - were poor. Does that somehow mean that I was being discriminatory because I closed my business? Please.

    Like I said, you're making a bogus comparison.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I have been saying this for so long. I'm glad to see someone else gets it, and isn't afraid to put it out.

    Wow those two were pretty far back. You only now saw them?

    Had to take a break, couldn't spend 2 hours every night catching up...

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