View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #2131
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Of course nobody can convince you since you have already made an ideological decision to accept certain beliefs with no regard for pragmatics or what is necessary to run a railroad so to speak. You will never "buy it" since you have already bought a bill of goods and that is a matter of faith with you.
    If that is your way of saying that I won't support eminent domain because of my principles, then yes, I agree.

    You mention rules you learned in kindergarten and refer to "don't hit people and don't take their stuff".

    I too am a big fan of that book and feel it is true wisdom. Lets get the rules straight first
    I wasn't referring to any book.

    There is nothing in there about elevating personal selfishness to your guiding principle in life.
    Straw man.

    I don't advocate elevating personal selfishness to one's guiding principle. I advocate respecting the body and property my fellow man. That is why I won't support government policies that use force to take the property of my fellow Americans.

    It does talk about sharing everything. It talks about playing fair. It talks about balance in life. It talks about helping each other and working with others.

    That is what you are missing. Yes - don't hit people and don't take what does not belong to you. But personal property can be taxed and that does indeed belong to the peoples government as written in the Constitution and enacted in law.
    Taxation is taking other people's stuff.

    So it is no longer yours and is not your stuff to take.
    What was my neighbor's now suddenly no longer belongs to him? Sounds a lot like his stuff was taken.

    It mentions balance and I have repeatedly taken the position that balance in rights is what it is all about. Rights tend to be things you have to use common sense about - no right to yell FIRE in a crowded theater for example. No right to sacrifice willing virgins upon your religions altar. No right to just walk in and election day and announce you want to vote if you have not complied with the rules and restrictions laid down about voting. Its all about balance the rights of the individual with the 315 million people in society.
    I'm all for balancing our rights. We all have a right to our body and property, that that must be balanced against everyone else's rights to their body and property.

    Taking what belongs to others is not balancing rights; it is violating rights.

    We might all be part of the physical world but when I say you live in a different world I am speaking that you have made an intellectual decision to NOT live in this one with its basic rules, regulations, laws, and limits that you object to. Thats okay as people all through history have objected to such things. The Pilgrims also did and they left the society they objected to since they could not change it and came here.

    You should use them as your example in this matter since you are NOT going to abolish eminent domain, roll back the clock to allow the freedom to segregate, or abolish taxation.
    Nope. I'm not leaving. I'm not abandoning the American people to the statist thugs who would enslave them and take their property.

  2. #2132
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The Founders who gave us the Constitution, every President and every Congress have joined seeing the necessity to take property - by force if necessary. That is simply the nation we live in.
    I see that you have fallen for the fallacy that because other people believe as you that your argument is correct.

    That does nothing to advance your argument that it is right or just for my neighbor to have his property taken by others by force.

  3. #2133
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post



    Taxation is taking other people's stuff.
    Yes it is when authorized by the greater society and the government of the people. And since that violates your personal principle of belief - it is ample evidence provided directly by you that your ideas are NOT those of the real world we live in. If you disagree, feel free how you could run the USA, the fifty states, and local areas WITHOUT compulsory taxation.

    Lets hear it how it would work in Libertarian Lala Land.

    I'm all for balancing our rights. We all have a right to our body and property, that that must be balanced against everyone else's rights to their body and property.
    People have much much more than simple property rights. They have all kind of rights including many other individual rights as well as the rights that the collective society has top have the type os society they want to have for their community, their state nd their nation as long as it is constitutional.

    Nope. I'm not leaving. I'm not abandoning the American people to the statist thugs who would enslave them and take their property.


    Of course you will not leave. You have good thing here and do not have the courage of your principles to leave a system you find so abhorrent and wrong. Instead, you will stay and keep on with your own hypocrisy.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-06-14 at 01:24 PM.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I see that you have fallen for the fallacy that because other people believe as you that your argument is correct.

    That does nothing to advance your argument that it is right or just for my neighbor to have his property taken by others by force.
    Reality is not a fallacy. that is all I am providing you with to counter the fantasy world of your self imposed extremist beliefs.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Then you need your own island nation with you as the government then you can truly do what you want - to be left alone. Otherwise you have made a voluntary decision to live in a society where things like taxation and limits on your behavior are part of the game. Its up to you.
    The thing that matters is the degree of control, and the liberals here and elsewhere are all about that. Pocket dictators, almost to the man.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    The thing that matters is the degree of control, and the liberals here and elsewhere are all about that. Pocket dictators, almost to the man.
    Can you provide some examples of this claim?
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    And there are plenty of towns with NO medical care within the community. So people (gasp!) drive.
    Yeah, and everybody has cars, don't they? And when one's really sick, it's no big deal at all to go 30-45 minutes away instead of 5 minutes away, huh? Since when do minutes matter when one is sick or injured? What are the lives of those despicable poor people (of the wrong color) compared to protecting one's right to be racist?

    And y'all wonder why we keep pointing out racists among conservatives and Republicans - we do it because you have a LOT MORE...and your arguments are the reason why you have a lot more.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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  8. #2138
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Then you need your own island nation with you as the government then you can truly do what you want - to be left alone. Otherwise you have made a voluntary decision to live in a society where things like taxation and limits on your behavior are part of the game. Its up to you.
    I keep telling them that taxes are the price of admission to live in a nation - and higher taxes are the price for living in a first-world nation.

    But I guess the conservatives want something for nothing - they want all the rights and privileges of living in a first-world nation, but they don't want to have to pay for it. Case in point: Cliven Bundy.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I keep telling them that taxes are the price of admission to live in a nation - and higher taxes are the price for living in a first-world nation.

    But I guess the conservatives want something for nothing - they want all the rights and privileges of living in a first-world nation, but they don't want to have to pay for it. Case in point: Cliven Bundy.
    Good point. I also would add that they want it both ways while coming up with pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo to justify and rationalize their hypocrisy. The idea that you could operate the USA, the states and the local communities without compulsory taxes is an idea that makes the Mad Hatter in Wonderland look like Albert Einstein.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Good point. I also would add that they want it both ways while coming up with pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo to justify and rationalize their hypocrisy. The idea that you could operate the USA, the states and the local communities without compulsory taxes is an idea that makes the Mad Hatter in Wonderland look like Albert Einstein.
    you just called the idea of the founders "the mad hatter's idea"

    compulsory taxes on the people is stealing any way you slice it!

    by the way.....government is supposed to be limited........HOWEVER ITS NOT....and for you to say it is.... when you know good and well the founders rejected education by the federal government at the constitutional convention, ..shows you will say anything!

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