View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #2011
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I don't see how the question relates to anything I posted, so could you clarify? Actually I often have mixed business and free time, most especially when I was running my own business.
    Well, I suppose if you are doing business on your free time, it is nearly impossible to prove you are discriminating based on a person's attributes as long as you don't say "I refuse to do business with you because you are black (or whatever)". It would be pretty evident if a business owner, opened for public business, refused service while servicing others.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Indeed.

    I'm not sure I'd call it backtracking so much as realizing my definition was incomplete. But either way.
    I'd say at least acknowledge that when you expand upon your definition. It's what I try to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What do you mean by the qualifying term "JUST"? I used it to refer to doing what is legal according to the law. Is that how you are using it?
    What is legal is not always right. What is right is not always legal. Similar principles apply to "just"

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    How can you conduct business on your free time?
    Ebay!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    I did give the person a chance. He failed to show that he may be a good caretaker the second he did something that I thought would be bad for my kids to learn. He was given the chance, failing it in the first second doesn't make it discrimination compared to someone failing 20 minutes in. It just means they were even less qualified.
    As they say, you can't judge the book by it's cover. In the end he may have well taught your kids more of what you wanted them to learn and in a method they could better understood than from you. But you can't know because you prejudged him and then discriminated based upon that prejudgement. You not wanting to believe that it isn't the same as prejudging based upon race and discriminating on that prejudgement is simple intellectual dishonesty.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    There are too many to list. But basically, so long as we are violating nobody else's rights, we are talking about an unalienable right to be who and what we are, to say what we think, believe, hope for, and express our personal opinions without fear that some group or mob will organize a hateful protest or boycott in an attempt to punish us for just being ourselves.
    Started off fine then the partisan nonsense crept in.

    You have no unalienable right that people or society will not organize, boycott or protest in response to hateful, racist or bigoted speech.

    Btw, a directive, order or request that a certain race of people be refused admittance to a popular venue open to the public, is violating someone's rights.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When you criticize others for following the law of the land but not your personal individual standard based on your own personal belief system, you are in effect placing the validity of your personal standard above the Constitution and the law of the land. And in any discussion that places you as completely and utterly irrelevant in daring to criticize anyone when all they are doing is following the Constitution and the law.
    I am not criticizing the constitution. I am criticizing the legislation that congress opted to enact, since it violates the non-aggression principle. Unlike you, I consider each of us as having equal rights and believe that none of us has the divine right to act as master over others. That includes declaring that he is taking ownership of another's property, unless that taking is as punishment for a criminal conviction.

  5. #2015
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Well, I suppose if you are doing business on your free time, it is nearly impossible to prove you are discriminating based on a person's attributes as long as you don't say "I refuse to do business with you because you are black (or whatever)". It would be pretty evident if a business owner, opened for public business, refused service while servicing others.
    Nobody with any business sense would do that because of the bad reputation it would give him with his other patrons. But if a business owner was that stupid, and his customers left him because of it, well so be it. He has no right to have customers who don't want to do business with him.

    But you still are dancing all around the principle involved here. We each have the right to our own opinions, thoughts, beliefs, and attitudes or we don't. If we don't, then somebody else is given power to dictate those to us and we have no liberty, no unalienable rights, no other real rights of any kind.

    For one person to presume the moral authority to dictate to another person what that person must speak, think, believe, appreciate, or whatever or else he/she will be subject to an angry, viscious attack on his/her person or property by some self-righteous mob is just plain unAmerican. It is wrong. It is evil. And no person with any sense of liberty, unalienable rights, justice, or right and wrong should condone it.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by reconmark View Post
    Started off fine then the partisan nonsense crept in.

    You have no unalienable right that people or society will not organize, boycott or protest in response to hateful, racist or bigoted speech.

    Btw, a directive, order or request that a certain race of people be refused admittance to a popular venue open to the public, is violating someone's rights.
    We aren't talking about a directive, order, or request. We are talking about a person's ability to conduct himself/herself and his/her own private property as he/she sees fit so long as he/she does not violate anybody else's rights. Why is that such a difficult concept for some to grasp here?

    And I challenge you to point out a single partisan syllable I wrote in any of my posts on this subject. This is not a matter of partisanship. This is a matter of principle. Of right and wrong. Of an ethical sense that people must be allowed to be who and what they are with impunity or we have mob rule and nobody has any rights.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post



    What is legal is not always right. What is right is not always legal. Similar principles apply to "just"


    Wonderful. Except you forgot to tell us what JUST is.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I am not criticizing the constitution. I am criticizing the legislation that congress opted to enact, since it violates the non-aggression principle. Unlike you, I consider each of us as having equal rights and believe that none of us has the divine right to act as master over others. That includes declaring that he is taking ownership of another's property, unless that taking is as punishment for a criminal conviction.
    It is a distinction without a difference as we have been over many many many times. Your personal standard is irrelevant next to the Constitution. It is simply nothing.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Well, I suppose if you are doing business on your free time, it is nearly impossible to prove you are discriminating based on a person's attributes as long as you don't say "I refuse to do business with you because you are black (or whatever)". It would be pretty evident if a business owner, opened for public business, refused service while servicing others.
    I have walked out of a restaurant when the proprietor refused service to a young black man. I have refused to do business with a dry cleaners who refused to accept dry cleaning from a local Hispanic family. I am not any kind of fan of those who would discriminate against somebody because of their race or ethnicity. But nobody questioned the right of either proprietor to run their business as they saw fit. There was no organized protest. No threats. No violence of any kind. Just a quiet boycott among people who preferred to do business with those they saw as more fair and just in their business practices and each making up their minds on their own about that.

    Both of those proprietors eventually came around and changed their policies, if not their attitudes. And they got their customers back. The people didn't see their attitudes as anybody's business. So long as the business practices were ethical and just, that was sufficient. That is the way it should work at all times. Not people dictating to others who and what they have to be in order to be acceptable. But a culture simply living their individual live with their own individual code of ethics. It was effective. It was American. It was good.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    We aren't talking about a directive, order, or request. We are talking about a person's ability to conduct himself/herself and his/her own private property as he/she sees fit so long as he/she does not violate anybody else's rights. Why is that such a difficult concept for some to grasp here?
    Probably because you aren't being honest when you just changed what you previously wrote.

    You asserted that people had no right to protest, organize or boycott in response to someone's speech. That's wrong in it's assertion.

    And I challenge you to point out a single partisan syllable I wrote in any of my posts on this subject. This is not a matter of partisanship. This is a matter of principle. Of right and wrong. Of an ethical sense that people must be allowed to be who and what they are with impunity or we have mob rule and nobody has any rights.
    Where is mob rule prevalent??



    THE BELOW IS SERLING'S QUOTE!!!!!!!
    The little I ask you is not to promote it on that and not to bring them to my games.
    I'm referring Serling's remarks, which I presume is what you are basing this thread on.
    Last edited by reconmark; 05-04-14 at 05:01 PM.

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