View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1981
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    If you are friends with a person who, unbeknownst to you, commits murder, are you an accessory to murder or otherwise a supporter of murder?
    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Somebody owns a gun... they attempt to use it to commit a crime and it is taken away.

    Would you agree that is just?
    I agree that it is just to disarm an attacker. I consider it just to defend one's self from attack.

    Do you consider it just to take what belongs to another?
    Last edited by Federalist; 05-04-14 at 12:28 AM.

  3. #1983
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    are we merely carrying a Lord's name in vain, in our pledge of allegiance?

    is there no moral we can appeal to in this case.

  4. #1984
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Discrimination as per the Oxford English Dictionary = The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex

    I would not hire this guy because in mutilating his face in such a way he has proven to me that he is not going to help raise my children in the way i wish them to be raised. Is that unjust or prejudicial? I think not. I am putting expectations for people (the only expectation in this case being that my child is raised in a way that I am comfortable with) that determine whether or not they receive a job, he failed to meet expectations therefor he did not get the job. That is not unjust.
    You have pre-judged him, based on appearance, and then discriminated against him because of that. That was my point.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Somebody owns a gun... they attempt to use it to commit a crime and it is taken away.

    Would you agree that is just?
    I think you have missed the point.

  6. #1986
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Somebody owns a gun... they attempt to use it to commit a crime and it is taken away.

    Would you agree that is just?
    nothing militia service, well regulated, couldn't take care of.

  7. #1987
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You have pre-judged him, based on appearance, and then discriminated against him because of that. That was my point.
    I judged him based on the criteria for getting the job, I don't think everyone would hop on your bandwagon that that is unjust. My point was that isn't discrimination more so the failure of someone to qualify for a job (for a JUST reason, that is what you can debate).
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by reconmark View Post
    Engaging in business in the public domain isn't free time.
    We aren't talking about engaging in business in the public domain. We are talking about engaging in one's own private business that one funded with his/her own money and took all the risks associated with that business's success. So long as they do not violate anybody's rights or any formal legal agreements, a person should not give up their unalienable rights to be who and what they are purely because somebody thinks they should be able to tell that person what they can and cannot do with their own property.
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  9. #1989
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    And there's the other side of it.

    I'd say since it's your private dwelling you should expect the police to assist, even though you're a bigoted asshole (in that situation).
    But you didn't make that stipulation before and now you're backtracking on it, which is what typically happens. Police have no business enforcing discrimination...except when they do. Face it in the end we have government enforced discrimination all the time.

    But on the other hand, if you have a public business they should not.
    But the public doesn't own the business. Therefore it is a private business. This whole nonsense of being open to the public is a legal fiction. Either the business belongs to the owner(s) and is a private one and subject to all the same rights and freedoms as the owner(s) or it is owned by the public and thus subject to the non-discrimination requirements of the government.


    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Somebody owns a gun... they attempt to use it to commit a crime and it is taken away.

    Would you agree that is just?
    Easy enough since both you and I would agree that the gun wielder in this case is violating another person's right (most likely. Can't say for sure unless you specify the crime). But it is obvious that there is disagreement on whether or not there is a right to not be discriminated against. We both agree that the government cannot do so. And actually we both agree that the private individual can do so in most situations. You simply don't want to believe that part of a person's private property and the inherent rights of that and himself are applicable at times and places that you don't like him exercising them. Use an actual comparable example where the action of the person is more subjective as to whether or not they are violating a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.
    Not surprising. One does not have to know about something in order to interact with it, even if he objects to it. You object to murder and yet your friend, unbeknownst to you, is a murderer. Federalist objects to the use of eminent domain and yet might be using a facility, unknowingly, that was taken by eminent domain. It does not make him any more hypocritical to use such a facility than it would you being friends with the murderer. Similarly, if the only facility available to do a required task was obtained by eminent domain and he had no alternatives (phone, internet, etc), he would still not be hypocritical. That would be like protesting the work conditions in the shop but continuing to work there since you need the money. Finally we can play 6 degrees of separation with just about anything and probably find a connection to eminent domain. It is rather unreasonable to hold to account anyone for secondary relations to that which he opposes.

    Finally you still have not proven anything as far as his association to eminent domain facilities. At best you can cite odds, but for all you know Federalist may live in a small town where they have never used eminent domain and no higher level has ever needed to make use of it. You cannot in any honesty show that he indeed benefits from eminent domain. Unless you're stalking him and then we have other issues to address.

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I agree that it is just to disarm an attacker. I consider it just to defend one's self from attack.

    Do you consider it just to take what belongs to another?
    Credit where credit is due....dude that was pitiful even for deflection. Your answer had absolutely nothing to do with the question posed. You entirely changed the premise. If you want to discredit the premise that is one thing, or show where it is incompatible to the topic at hand. But you don't get to change it and not get called out on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    I judged him based on the criteria for getting the job, I don't think everyone would hop on your bandwagon that that is unjust. My point was that isn't discrimination more so the failure of someone to qualify for a job (for a JUST reason, that is what you can debate).
    Sorry it is discrimination. Just because the liberals are trying to confine the concept of discrimination to just their special groups, it does not mean that any discrimination outside those groups is not still discrimination. If you base it upon the color of the person's hair....discrimination. Left or right handed....discrimination. Cat owner or dog owner....discrimination.

    In the example you were indeed prejudiced. You made an assumption based upon the visual without really giving the person a chance that show whether or not they fall within your stereotype. By acting upon that prejudice, i.e. not hiring them to babysit, you discriminated.
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  10. #1990
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    But you didn't make that stipulation before and now you're backtracking on it, which is what typically happens. Police have no business enforcing discrimination...except when they do. Face it in the end we have government enforced discrimination all the time.
    Indeed.

    I'm not sure I'd call it backtracking so much as realizing my definition was incomplete. But either way.
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