View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1951
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Okay, so Lincoln may have been a hypocrite. So far I seem to be in good company.
    AHA!!!! So that is what this is about. A poor and pathetic attempt to again justify your own hypocrisy. Don't you see that its rather self defeating for you to walk down that path as an attempt to justify your own personal hypocrisy?

    And so far, you have not provided the information necessary for me to answer the question about Lincoln that you posed. So not so fast including yourself in the company of Lincoln.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #1952
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    AHA!!!! So that is what this is about. A poor and pathetic attempt to again justify your own hypocrisy. Don't you see that its rather self defeating for you to walk down that path as an attempt to justify your own personal hypocrisy?

    And so far, you have not provided the information necessary for me to answer the question about Lincoln that you posed. So not so fast including yourself in the company of Lincoln.
    Yes, you consider me a hypocrite, just as I'm sure you consider Lincoln, Wilburforce, the Moscow bread line citizen, and the Haymarket anarchists to be hypocrites. I consider myself in good company.

  3. #1953
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, you consider me a hypocrite, just as I'm sure you consider Lincoln, Wilburforce, the Moscow bread line citizen, and the Haymarket anarchists to be hypocrites. I consider myself in good company.
    Your own hypocrisy is not excused nor mitigated by you claiming that others may have been. That is just a tremendously weak argument that in no way shape or from denies your own hypocrisy.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your own hypocrisy is not excused nor mitigated by you claiming that others may have been. That is just a tremendously weak argument that in no way shape or from denies your own hypocrisy.
    I don't give a crap whether you excuse my hypocrisy or not. I consider myself in good company. I'd rather be Wilburforce than those who were supporting slavery. I'd rather be Federalist than those supporting the taking of others' property by force.

  5. #1955
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Um, no it doesn't. A person can still be sexually harassed and not have anyone lay a hand on them. That means, NO participation or contribution needed by the victim. Sexual harassment has more to do with power than sex. That is the whole point. The same goes with discrimination. It has to do with power. When someone is running a business, they should treat all humans as humans unless that human decides not to act like a human. At that point, a business owner has every right to kick them off their property.
    Sexual harassment that directly or implies that a person could lose his/her job or possibly be passed over for promotion or otherwise creating an uncomfortable or toxic workplace is requiring participation by a person in a way the person cannot avoid or choose not to participate.

    When running a business, a smart business owner will of course treat everybody well. But what a business owner should do and what we can force a business owner to do without violating that business owners unalienable right to be who and what he is are two separate things. And what a business owner chooses to do on or with his own private property should be his unalienable right unless he agrees in advance, via social contract in his community, to provide certain services in return for a business license.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #1956
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Sexual harassment that directly or implies that a person could lose his/her job or possibly be passed over for promotion or otherwise creating an uncomfortable or toxic workplace is requiring participation by a person in a way the person cannot avoid or choose not to participate.
    So does discrimination.

    When running a business, a smart business owner will of course treat everybody well. But what a business owner should do and what we can force a business owner to do without violating that business owners unalienable right to be who and what he is are two separate things. And what a business owner chooses to do on or with his own private property should be his unalienable right unless he agrees in advance, via social contract in his community, to provide certain services in return for a business license.
    A smart business person should be ethical when running a business. If not, there are laws to protect others.

  7. #1957
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    So does discrimination.



    A smart business person should be ethical when running a business. If not, there are laws to protect others.
    Being racist or a bigot or discriminatory does not make a person unethical. It is what a person does in practice that makes a person ethical or unethical. A person can be 100% politically correct and say all the right things considered 100% virtuous by the most discriminating leftist, and still be an entirely unethical person.

    But how about discriminating against the racist or bigot? Is that okay?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  8. #1958
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Being racist or a bigot does not make a person unethical. It is what a person does in practice that makes a person ethical or unethical.
    Yes. That is the essence of this argument.

  9. #1959
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Yes. That is the essence of this argument.
    So please respond to my question. Is it okay to discriminate against somebody you believe to be a racist or a bigot or somebody who discriminates?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #1960
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    So please respond to my question. Is it okay to discriminate against somebody you believe to be a racist or a bigot or somebody who discriminates?
    No. If I own a business, I'm in the business to sell my product, not decide if people are moral enough to buy my stuff. Quite frankly, it's none of my business what they do on their free time.

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