View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1751
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That we do, aggregate society comes at cost. There's no such thing as a free lunch and the labor of others is not free, we have to pay for it. That is neither here nor there. Don't deflect, what rights are infringed upon.
    In the USA we consider it a civil right for all Americans to be served at establishments open to the public. Allowing discrimination would violate that right.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Then try it. See how far you get.
    Your response makes no sense to the post of mine you reproduced. I stated a basic truth - that anything in the Constitution including the bill of rights can be changed via a future amendment. This reality completely and utterly destroys the nonsense that a right is forever and cannot be taken away.
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  3. #1753
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I made no attempt to speak for any number of slaves or gays, I'm pointing out that you are diagnosing them with a mental illness. The nonsense is yours on this line of thinking.
    The sorry attempt to work in slaves or gays gives you no intellectual cover as my comments applies to ALL people who operate under the self imposed delusion that they have certain rights when they do not have them to exercise and the government of their nation does NOT recognize the rights they claim. Refusing to accept reality is a mental delusion simply because you believe otherwise when everyday reality screams the opposite.

    This applies to all races, all genders, all persuasions of all people.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #1754
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    anarchy is no government...the federal is limited to its national powers, meant to be used for the union itself,, not in the internal life's of the people.
    And a limited government is what we have.
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  5. #1755
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Hey, you're the one advocating government force be used to deny people the ability to control access to their own property. That does indeed sound rather piggish to me.
    Actually it is American and not piggish at all. And it is America, its people and its laws that you have trouble with.
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  6. #1756
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think you need to get your eyes checked.
    Why - because I am not fooled by high sounding malarkey which in the end is designed to allow bigotry and discrimination? I see perfectly and you don't like that.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually it is American and not piggish at all. And it is America, its people and its laws that you have trouble with.
    No, not all of America. Just laws that violate the ability of a person to control access to his own property.

    But I have learned what to expect. You have shown yourself to be very happy to violate the person and property of your fellow man.

  8. #1758
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The sorry attempt to work in slaves or gays gives you no intellectual cover as my comments applies to ALL people who operate under the self imposed delusion that they have certain rights when they do not have them to exercise and the government of their nation does NOT recognize the rights they claim. Refusing to accept reality is a mental delusion simply because you believe otherwise when everyday reality screams the opposite.

    This applies to all races, all genders, all persuasions of all people.
    You are demonstrating the moral certainty of a government employee. You deny that slaves had the right to assert freedom because the government at the time did not recognize their claim. That is the flaw of your claim and your second flaw is that you refuse to acknowledge it. Let's be factual, a right is only something you have if you can defend it. I don't have the expectation that government cannot make a mistake and sometimes it takes a bit of noise for government to recognize that, if someone felt strongly enough. As a former government employee, I don't think you can appreciate that. Pity.

  9. #1759
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So in your opinion no one has Rights. Just privileges that people let other people have. That explaines alot of your posts. And its a good thing SCOTUS disagrees with you.
    Like SCOTUS always upholds rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i can excise my rights on my property without the police being involved, you cant.
    Actually I can and I've shown it. Where the police get involved (absent threats of violence) is where I violate your property rights by not leaving. The police are not there because of my speech. They are there because of my not leaving. That is an issue with your right and not mine.

    the problem we face is people thinking all of their rights, give them authority were ever they go to say and act without impunity [ because they think, "hey" its my right], and you the owner have no recourse to stop them.
    Agreed and I've been making this point the whole time. We all have rights and when we exercise them there are consequences. Some positive and some negative and many depend upon how you view whether the consequence is positive or negative. Even when we look at the main example being used in this thread regarding business owners on their private business property. If they employ discrimination based upon race or gender or orientation or any of the "protected classes" odds are there will be negative consequences as a result. Do not mistake my saying that simply because my rights are intact at all times even while on your property, that I am saying that I can exercise them without consequence. I am only noting that they are intact and are not reduced to privileges while on your property.

    this idea, [we have here in the thread] people get in their minds, is....you must treat me with respect, dignity, and fairly........which they don't get..........i don't have to do any of those things..........i can be rude, from sun up to sun down.
    Again agreed. Granted those are the right things to do, but there should never be any forcing for one to do right thing if the wrong thing isn't violating another's rights.

    are people so uneducated about rights, privileges, that i have to explain every detail, that i cannot use general terms, i am starting to shake my head, and feel sad at the situation in america.
    My point is to you that the general term that you are using is indicating the opposite of what you are trying to say. That is what I have been trying to drill into you over these last several exchanges. You are hurting your own argument because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    That's exactly what the Confederates (Who got their butts kicked in the U.S. Civil War.) thought.

    Case closed.
    Wait, wait, wait......are you trying to say that just because they lost that the Confederates were wrong?!?!? So if the colonies had lost the war for their freedom would their ideals have been wrong too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Then try it. See how far you get.
    Seriously? How is that any better a response than them telling us to try discriminating and seeing where it gets us?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I totally understand that you have a lot of time to waste.

    Drone on.
    You have better things to waste your time on and you keep responding to him. Methinks you have to have the last word.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think you need to get your eyes checked.
    Naw....he sees fine...he just won't admit to it being his pig.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  10. #1760
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In the USA we consider it a civil right for all Americans to be served at establishments open to the public. Allowing discrimination would violate that right.
    No we don't. There are plenty of circumstances in which people may be denied services. You have no right to another man's property or labor. So what rights are violated? Given that service can and IS denied to patrons, that you do not have the right to the labor of others, what gives you the authority to use the guns of government to command the labor of others?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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