View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1721
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So in your opinion no one has Rights. Just privileges that people let other people have. That explaines alot of your posts. And its a good thing SCOTUS disagrees with you.
    No - my opinion is that people have rights when enough people decide they want a certain behavior and exert power over the government to make that right happen.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Yes, governments are constructs of people. Rights are not. Haymarkets posts are essentially saying that no one has Rights. People only have privileges that other people can give or take away.

    Rights are inalienable and exist regardless of government.
    I have an absolute hatred .... a complete loathing .... a feeling far beyond contempt .... for people who pervert what I say telling others that "essentially" I am saying something I am not. Why is it so difficult for you to simply quote me and deal with what I said instead of playing Dr. Frankenstein and turning it into a monster version?
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Property rights are not above all, force may be exercised in some situations depending on which rights are threatened or violated. But no one has right to another's property or labor. So what rights are being infringed?
    We take other peoples property on a daily basis through taxation. That is part of the price all pay for living in a civilized society.
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  4. #1724
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No - my opinion is that people have rights when enough people decide they want a certain behavior and exert power over the government to make that right happen.
    If it can be taken away or given then it is not a Right. If you think that it is then you have absolutely no understanding of what a Right is.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have an absolute hatred .... a complete loathing .... a feeling far beyond contempt .... for people who pervert what I say telling others that "essentially" I am saying something I am not. Why is it so difficult for you to simply quote me and deal with what I said instead of playing Dr. Frankenstein and turning it into a monster version?
    Then don't make statements that have such an obvious connection.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If it can be taken away or given then it is not a Right.
    Where are you getting this rule from?

    If you think that it is then you have absolutely no understanding of what a Right is.
    I have a perfect understanding. What I do NOT have is your belief system.

    Then don't make statements that have such an obvious connection.
    Baloney. Just deal with what I actually say and not what you want it to be.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A self imposed delusionary state where you convince yourself you actually possess something when reality indicates that you do not is indeed a sign of mental illness.
    Wow, I gave you the chance to back off your application of mental illness to slaves and gays and you doubled down. Both groups thought they possess freedom when the then "current" reality says they don't.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    But this is what my point is. This is not cutting it to too fine a point. The distinction is very important, especially in a thread where we are talking about what rights apply and when. When you state that one cannot exercise their rights on your property and leave it at that, it is no different than telling the property owner that he cannot exercise his right of association on his own property. You mean something different, but in the end you don't say it. The true statement is that your property rights are not overridden by anyone else's rights nor are their rights overridden by your property rights.Consequences may occur from the interaction of the various rights, but the fact remains that neither set of rights override the others. Once we enter into the force area then we are no longer talking about what rights the person on the property(vice property owner) has since he is no longer acting within his rights.
    i think if i say..... you can keep using free speech until the police come and take you out the door....if someone cannot figure that out, they should not even be using a forum.

    as i has said, 99.9 % of the time i will not care what you do in my business, meaning you can exercise the rights you have without problems, but you don't have the ability to assert your rights, and tell me, i cannot prevent in any way you from exercising them, meaning calling the police.

    i can excise my rights on my property without the police being involved, you cant.

    the problem we face is people thinking all of their rights, give them authority were ever they go to say and act without impunity [ because they think, "hey" its my right], and you the owner have no recourse to stop them.

    this idea, [we have here in the thread] people get in their minds, is....you must treat me with respect, dignity, and fairly........which they don't get..........i don't have to do any of those things..........i can be rude, from sun up to sun down.

    another thing this idea of freedom "FROM"......this idea comes into play sometimes, when people believe if someone is doing something they don't like, yet its not a violation, that person must stop.....example- some people get the idea, its freedom from religion, thinking you cannot display/ engage in religion if they are around to see it.

    are people so uneducated about rights, privileges, that i have to explain every detail, that i cannot use general terms, i am starting to shake my head, and feel sad at the situation in america.

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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again - you make up nonsense and lamely attempt to attribute it to me in a sad attempt to distort and pervert and eventually demonize those who disagree with the propertytarian obsession.

    wrong, a statist is a person who believes in government,...which by your words, that is what i believe you are about since i have ever heard from you something government "cannot do",...you even believe our rights come via the government.

    i my get on to you [ demonize if you like], when you assert that what i believe, would hurt, kill, starve, do damage to other people, in other words, "fear mongering"

  9. #1729
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    He didn't write that Black people and women could be free, with the same rights that white men who owned land claimed for themselves.

    Try reading the original U.S. Constitution. Very educational.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
    yes, you should try it, since the constitution is not meant to address the people, it creates federalism between states and the federal government.

    is the federal government given power over the people by the constitution....no!

    does the constitution grant or gives rights to the people..............no!

    so how is the constitution suppose to dispense rights/ freedoms to people....when it is BUSY creating federalism VIA the construction of the federal government.

    you concerns about rights, land, and so forth, ...should be addressed on the state level, not federal level.
    Last edited by Master PO; 04-29-14 at 11:45 AM.

  10. #1730
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Where are you getting this rule from?
    The very definition of inalienable Rights and Privilege.

    Dictionary.com ~ inalienable rights
    Businessdictionary.com ~ inalienable rights
    Mirriam-Webster ~ inalienable
    US Legal ~ inalienable rights
    Thefreedictionary.com ~ privlege
    Mirriam-Webster ~ privilege


    Need I go on? Where do you get that Rights can be taken away or given?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have a perfect understanding. What I do NOT have is your belief system.
    If you did then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Baloney. Just deal with what I actually say and not what you want it to be.
    Why? You draw to conclusions based on what people say all the time. Why hold everyone else to a standard that you won't adhere to also?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It seems that your anger is because of the way the information is being characterized in the article which differs with your own particular views on the subject. The basic reality here is that both liberal and conservative groups were investigated.
    How do you know he's angry?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Where are you getting this idea from? We are people - not property. You are ascribing some absolute right where there is none. And all because you want to be a bigot.
    Ascribing that the other person wants to be a bigot based on his belief that there is no right to not be discriminated against. Sure sounds like you are just dealing with what he said and not what you want it to be huh?

    I could go on and on showinig posts where you have ascribed things to people that they did not say. But that you believe they meant.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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