View Poll Results: What's More Important - the "Right" to Discriminate, or Freedom From Discrimination?

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  • The Right to Discriminate

    38 33.04%
  • Freedom From Discrimination

    77 66.96%
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Thread: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discrimination?

  1. #1701
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    LOL. Sorry doing things with the wife.



    Or in other words consequences. There is a big difference between not having rights while on your property and having to risk expulsion from your property from exercising those rights. You keep saying that no one has executable right while on your property, which is an untrue statement. Even when you show you know better as you do below you go back to that same statement and collapse your whole argument. My right to free speech does not give me a right to be on your property, but neither does your property rights give you the right to silence me while on your property. For that matter, not even while I am refusing to leave, even as the cops are dragging me away. Even they are not allowed to silence me. The only real privilege I receive while on your property is the privilege on being on your property.



    I think it's been made clear by several people that such is a violation of rights, regardless of what side of the discrimination line they are falling.
    here again, you cut things to..... to fine a point.....

    you cannot exercise a right on my property......what does this mean?...it means you cannot exercise them if i don't want you to without consequences.

    speech:...you exercise you right to speech on my property, 99.9% i will not care what you say....however if you become loud, and noisy and bother other customers, i will ask you to keep it down, if you refuse, i ask you to leave, if you refuse, i call the police...you can continue to exercise speech, until the police arrive which i explain to them what has happened, and they take you out ending your free speech in my business, with you facing the consequences of your actions.

    again, with force: you exercise you right to speech on my property, 99.9% i will not care what you say....however if you become loud, and noisy and bother other customers, i will ask you to keep it down, if you refuse, i ask you to leave, if you refuse, push me, then hit me, i see this as a threat from you, i then have the authority to hit you, and restrain you until police arrive....which they cuff and book you for assault on me.....during this whole time, i hit and restrain you, you are able to speak...but your speech comes to an end, when you are taken out of my place by force of law.

  2. #1702
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Due process is not force.
    You can believe that, if you want.

    And, the property owner doesn't haven't limitless rights.
    No, property owners don't have limitless rights. Nobody's saying that.

    However, you are discriminating against a particular group of property owners, and you are taking away a right that from them that all other property owners have. That is the power structure you want to impose.

  3. #1703
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Property and labor are indeed rights. A man has right to his property and his labor.
    Not at the expense of all other rights. And therein lies the problem with the views of the propertytarians in this thread. They begin with the assumption that property rights are above all others and are without limit or are not subject to legislation by government. And that is the bridge too far.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Nice avoidance. Try again. Did the blacks have rights that were being violated by the law and the government pre-civil war era?
    Avoidance? One could not be more clear than my answer was. Unless the government of the nation you reside in recognizes the rights you pretend to claim for yourself - YOU DO NOT HAVE THEM.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    *sigh* Here we go again.

    There is no right to not be discriminated against. Such a Right would violate other peoples Rights. And as I have said repeatedly through out this thread that you supposedly read through one persons rights end where another persons rights begins. Not only does that mean that my property rights cannot violate other peoples rights it also means that this supposed "right" to not be discriminated against cannot violate my property rights. As such there is no right to be free of discrimination because it cannot be exercised without violating other peoples rights.
    We as a people have decided otherwise.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so it comes out...you who have proclaimed yourself a constitutionalists......who does not believe in right to property....thanks again for your true statist side.
    Again - you make up nonsense and lamely attempt to attribute it to me in a sad attempt to distort and pervert and eventually demonize those who disagree with the propertytarian obsession.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Nobody I've read on this entire thread has advocated discrimination at least as related to how people are treated.

    What you advocate is the political and legal environment which would then permit it as a natural consequence of changes in our laws.
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  8. #1708
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We as a people have decided otherwise.
    People cannot strip rights away. Otherwise they are not Rights, but privileges.
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Avoidance? One could not be more clear than my answer was. Unless the government of the nation you reside in recognizes the rights you pretend to claim for yourself - YOU DO NOT HAVE THEM.
    Yeah, actually you do have them, they are just being violated.
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  10. #1710
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    Re: Which Is More Important? The Right to Discriminate, or Freedom from Discriminati

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    here again, you cut things to..... to fine a point.....
    But this is what my point is. This is not cutting it to too fine a point. The distinction is very important, especially in a thread where we are talking about what rights apply and when. When you state that one cannot exercise their rights on your property and leave it at that, it is no different than telling the property owner that he cannot exercise his right of association on his own property. You mean something different, but in the end you don't say it. The true statement is that your property rights are not overridden by anyone else's rights nor are their rights overridden by your property rights.Consequences may occur from the interaction of the various rights, but the fact remains that neither set of rights override the others. Once we enter into the force area then we are no longer talking about what rights the person on the property(vice property owner) has since he is no longer acting within his rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Avoidance? One could not be more clear than my answer was. Unless the government of the nation you reside in recognizes the rights you pretend to claim for yourself - YOU DO NOT HAVE THEM.
    So it is your assertion that rights are only the result of legislation and as such can be removed at any time(via proper legislative procedure)?
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